Integrity

[Outta here]

The subject of integrity came up somewhere along the way.....

I got to thinking about this recently. I'm wondering what those who don't subscribe to a belief in a higher power use as a motivation to 'be a good person' - to conduct themselves with integrity. Rarely have I met someone completely devoid of any integrity at all - most of us have some sort of moral compass that provides a framework at least, to how we will decide to live our lives. Yet many wonderful people - honest, kind, charitable etc. people that I know state their disbelief in a higher power. Some of the most trustworthy people I've ever met are athesists, so what IS it that creates a preference within us to choose to define ourselves in ways we would consider worthy and having integrity?

Since my belief is based in my love of fellow man, the axiom 'above all, do no harm' is one of my moral guidelines.... sounds easy eh? sometimes it's not.

what are yours?

 

[Jersay]

Nine Noble Virtues Principles.

I have them on my fridge however I forgot what they are off the top of my head

Courage, Truth, Honour, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance and Perseverance.

There they are.

 

[Outta here]

Wonderful virtues, Jersay! very noble indeed....so what within you makes you choose these to live by? By what guideline does your gut say these are what I shall choose to define myself - by displaying these qualities shall I determine my life to be well lived?

 

[Jersay]

Well they are the Nine Noble Virtues of the Asatru or Heathen religion. So I say not only as Vikings but this connects as one religious group.

I myself look at these virtues to go for my religion and as a personal issue because if you can't be truthful or courageous then what kind of person are you??

 

[Outta here]

yes, Jersay I agree. Not sure if I'm getting my question across though. It's this: What makes us care what kind of person we are? What separates us from the so called 'lesser' species in this regard? (I use that term quite loosely, btw) :lol:

 

[Vereya]

yes, Jersay I agree. Not sure if I'm getting my question across though. It's this: What makes us care what kind of person we are? What separates us from the so called 'lesser' species in this regard? (I use that term quite loosely, btw) :lol:

Self-respect, that is the basis for respect towards other people?

 

[Jersay]

Why do we care about people?

Well this is not for all people because their are some that don't do it, but the aspect of humanism or disregarding the aspect of just leaving if you see someone in trouble people will just act because it is the right thing to do.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

... so what IS it that creates a preference within us to choose to define ourselves in ways we would consider worthy and having integrity?

I find it pretty simple, actually. The rewards of integrity--what I generally describe as my belief in the faded Victorian virtues, which are pretty much the list Jersay posted, with the addition of duty and loyalty--I find are far greater than being any other sort of person. To that extent I suppose it could be called enlightened self-interest: as social animals we have to have rules about how we're going to get along with each other, and some rules work better than others. Religious justifications for them strike me as facile. They're just post hoc rationalizations of existing values arrived at by other means.

 

[#juan]

I grew up in a moderately religious family, and while I don't belong to any particular church now, I'm sure the old family values have influenced my code of behavior. I have been known to try to rationally convince people, including myself, that we owe it to ourselves to help our species to grow and improve. Those of us who have children want to see the best world possible for those children and their children. This is probably the strongest motivation to promote "integrity" and the "golden rule".

 

[Dexter Sinister]

... people will just act because it is the right thing to do.

I felt the OP's question was more why do we perceive that as the right thing to do. Relatively few species of animals display that kind of behaviour, and humans doing it requires explanation, in terms of both evolutionary biology and the extent to which our capacity for conscious thought moderates the influences of our genes. A full explication would probably be at least book length, so it isn't going to show up here (I hope), but people's short answers are worth exploring too.

 

[Outta here]

absolutely Dexter.... we all have our own reasons, and I think sometimes we forget to dust off those reasons and see if they still fit, still resonate as the truth for us - withstand the test of reflection every now and again.

I have no firm adherence to any particular belief about why we are the way we are, that's why I posed the question. loll

I love hearing different perspectives on ponderings like that so everyone's response here is grist for me wee mill lolll.. Thanks Jersay, Vereya, Juan, Dexter and any else who dare venture here.

 

[gc]

Non-religious folks could argue that evolution has forced us to co-operate with eachother and help eachother.

 

[CAD]

Re: RE: Integrity

Non-religious folks could argue that evolution has forced us to co-operate with eachother and help eachother.

Why would that be an argument, at least, in the oppositional sense of the word? The two ideas aren't necessarily in conflict. If we are animals, then we do the things that have been observed in other animals. Put briefly, it's all about fear. Integrity is a static form of loyalty, which is trust. The bonds we create among ourselves--when not otherwise explicitly for mating--are for the reduction of fear, the protection from external or greater harm.

Religious folks could then "argue" that we are animals with a "spark of the divine." Without sentience, and self-awareness, we would not come up with such abstractions as integrity. We'd then be reduced to how animals understand fear and death: It's when that thing you've been mating with stops moving, so you can eat it.

As humans, we cannot be expected to dispose of such pleasantries and still indulge in the company of others.

They're afraid we might eat them.