Inspiration of the Holy Spirit
- Thread starter sanctus
- Start date
Well Sactum, as you can see I'm not hard nose about it either, more curious questions then anything else.
Granted yes St. John was not there for the first Eucharist. But again didn't Jesus start including many others into his ministry, not because of the club they belonged to but because of the faith they had shown. It seems to me that that it is personal faith that brings you to the body of Christ, not a set of rules... Again I don't expect you to shoulder the whole Catholic Church on this any more then I may the Anglican..There are more than one items from the Anglican church I either find shameful and atleast disagree, however my faith is not based on church docorine or earthly rules, but rather from the Holy spirit entering me, and tring to act according to God's ways and the Sons teachings..trying that isnot well but do try!!
Yes, all true. But in my case, I am somewhat required to uphold Church doctrines and teachings
In truth, and I am being open and honest, not confrontational at all, the underlying core of Catholic belief in this matter is based, sorry to say, on an assumption that is not mentioned much out loud(as it were) The fact is, despite ecumenical efforts on the part of the Church, the general RC mindset is that we ARE the Church, period. This thinking underlies much of our disciplines in such areas. Well we acknoweldge officially the Christ within of other faiths, we do so in a way that implies, sometimes obviously, that we believe ourselves to be the "real" Church and all others as false.
I offer this as a further explanation towards why the Sacraments are with-held from non-Catholics.
Though recently, we have been instructed that we can offer the Sacraments to the Orthodox should they come forward.
I don't think I shall Mikey. I'm not interested in pursuing a debate on the matter. It has, for one thing, nothing to do with the thread in general. And for another thing, your entire purpose for asking is confrontational and such an exchange just frankly does not interest me. I believe what I believe, and you are free not to. That you do not understand the Sacramental purpose of communion is frankly of no concern to me at all. Sorry, you'll have to find someone else to play with today.
LOL and just as dangerous to your health LOL
hah hah hah..speaking of which, I hope you're taking care of YOURS!!!!:lol:
I feel horrible..a friend called last night and was about to hop a plane from florida I sound so bad
The stark answer to this question is that since Christ's established his Apostolic Church there is no need for other religions. For the most part today the flock as you state is scattered and has chosen to be remain distant from Christ even though the Word is readily available to most anyone on the planet in any language. If there is one true Church established by God then there cannot be another.
The Jews were waiting for this very day when a Messiah would come. Looking aside the OT messages on who to look for in a Messiah, they were looking for a swordsman that would free them from the Romans, but instead were given a saviour of peace who used words instead of a sword. This particular Christ did not perform has they expected, so they considered him a false Christ.
AndyF
T
Did not the Almighty know before hand that there would be a scattering?
Just what is the purpose of scattering? Do you know?
Let’s say for example that I wanted to make a hamburger that was cheap and fast. Then I would start selling it. Well, it would probably sell only to those who know about it in the immediate area.
But what if I wanted to make it know all over the country that I had the greatest, cheapest burgers?
I would create a franchise and scatter them all over the country.
Your looking at the same principal McDonald’s had.
Well, God the Father slayed the Sheppard and the flock scattered.
Mar 14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.
In the scattering, churches have evolved.
True, the oldest church is the Catholic, but it too has been evolving.
Therefore, Jesus is not bound by any one church, but His own, of which He is the head of it.
The body of believers constitutes the Church of Christ.
Believers, I said, not churches.
Churches, well meaning as they are may hinder ones spiritual growth, by limiting it’s members to set perimeter.
One must seek to find what the real truth is and go with it.
What is the real truth?
The real truth is that JESUS died and paid for our sins to set us free.
If you can believe that, then He will set you free.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
How about this Andy: since Christ established His spiritual church, there is no reason for us to start our own religion, religions.
Did not the Almighty know before hand that there would be a scattering?
Just what is the purpose of scattering? Do you know?
Let’s say for example that I wanted to make a hamburger that was cheap and fast. Then I would start selling it. Well, it would probably sell only to those who know about it in the immediate area.
But what if I wanted to make it know all over the country that I had the greatest, cheapest burgers?
I would create a franchise and scatter them all over the country.
Your looking at the same principal McDonald’s had.
Well, God the Father slayed the Sheppard and the flock scattered.
Mar 14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.
In the scattering, churches have evolved.
True, the oldest church is the Catholic, but it too has been evolving.
Therefore, Jesus is not bound by any one church, but His own, of which He is the head of it.
The body of believers constitutes the Church of Christ.
Believers, I said, not churches.
Churches, well meaning as they are may hinder ones spiritual growth, by limiting it’s members to set perimeter.
One must seek to find what the real truth is and go with it.
What is the real truth?
The real truth is that JESUS died and paid for our sins to set us free.
If you can believe that, then He will set you free.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
His spiritual Church is in one form, the Catholic Church. That is the "Church" Christ established. It is both a physical and spiritual organization. Please do not feel the need to reply. To be honest, I generally skim your long dialogues without really reading them all the way through.
The church building, the church organization are debateable. Church of Christ is not.
Either one belong to it or one does not! What are the requirements for membership?
One must be born of God!
Question is, are we born of God?
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Either one belong to it or one does not! What are the requirements for membership?
One must be born of God!
Question is, are we born of God?
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
MikeyDB:
There may be various reasons for the act of cannibalism, in all cases the physical effect through digestion being the absorption of human proteins that nourish the body. On very rare occasions is this practice a necessity, and understandably even in these cases the practice is shunned by society.
On the other hand the Sacrament of the Eucharist received at Communion(socio) is an absolute must by every society if it desires to lessen it's battle against sin. In it the substance of Christ is received for the spiritual refreshment of the soul.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05584a.htm
The Blessed Eucharist as a Sacrament
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm#3
Transubstatiation.
The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist
"......Finally, Transubstantiation differs from every other substantial conversion in this, that only the substance is converted into another — the accidents remaining the same — just as would be the case if wood were miraculously converted into iron, the substance of the iron remaining hidden under the external appearance of the wood.
The application of the foregoing to the Eucharist is an easy matter. First of all the notion of conversion is verified in the Eucharist, not only in general, but in all its essential details. For we have the two extremes of conversion, namely, bread and wine as the terminus a quo, and the Body and Blood of Christ as the terminus ad quem. Furthermore, the intimate connection between the cessation of one extreme and the appearance of the other seems to be preserved by the fact, that both events are the results, not of two independent processes, as, e.g. annihilation and creation, but of one single act, since,...."
AndyF
This doesn't really explain the difference. cannibalism is the consumption of human flesh by humans. Congregations are almost always entirely human, the wafer is transubstantiated into the flesh of Jesus, who was a human (and also the son of God, arguably). Therefore the act of communion is cannibalism?
True. But it is not only spiritual but a living and dynamic one as well catering to the needs of every person whatever that may be, or impossible it may seem. Once we have found Christ,(the Church), we can set upon our servile work in a new zeal and ready to do the Church's bidding as true soldiers of Christ. Searching for Churches from this point on would only be an indicator to us that something wants to throw us off track. For instance the "thing" may want to suggest to us that there is not enough singing for entertainment, so suggest another church, or that the theatrics are not to our liking, and go to "bible-thumping healing churches", etc. A circular disatisfaction takes hold, anything to keep us moving, and out of tune to God and His work.
Through God's foreknowledge He was aware that this would occur. There were already ancient pagan religions in existance, most worshipping idols or celestial bodies, yet one had His sanction and that was the Jewish religion. Even this was a temporary one as then plans were drawn to have Christ's Religion replace all of them forever.
God did not scatter his flock, we are quite capable of doing a good job of that ourselves. God only sends out invitations in many various forms, the first lived among us. This reference in Mark shows us that Christ foretold that his Apostles would seek to save their own skins when the time for his abduction came.
To say that it is evolving would suppose that Christ left it while it was in an imperfect state, and that cannot be. The Holy Spirit would not have bestowed His final sanction at Pentecost if it were incomplete. The ministers of the Church very carefully investigate and seek inspiration and use Dogma of the True Church and Scripture as a guide to administer the true Word to His people.
Close. The body of believers [in Christ, Baptised through the Holy Spirit] constitutes the Church of Christ, the remainder are not, and acting on his own without representation is sure folly.
One would not want to wander out of that perimeter. Nothing but spiritual desolation out there.
The Church can only teach within set parameters instructed by the founder. If it didn't, it would have been destroyed ages ago just as Jerusalem's Temple experienced.
To make it possible for us to be free if we choose do do so, and that is where the Church helps us.
FWIW: Works by Sts. Ignatius and Theresa oriented to spiritualism are excellent reading.
AndyF
Last edited:
That is one correct estimation of how society can come together in one spirit.
But, there it is,……the “but” factor,….meaning something other than what it is perceived to be.
If one was to study the bible on this verse, one would find along these lines something interesting.
Here is the verses in question: Pro 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
Here the words dog and fool are metaphors of some significance.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Happened: to them according to the true proverb. (Prophecy)
The significance here is this: that without Christ, we are bound to remain in our old condition or former state as the proverb states.
Meaning is that His disciples were yet in the old state and would return to their former state when Christ would suddenly be taken away from them.
But, because Christ came to change all that, His apostles vomited after drinking of the wine when Jesus said, this is my blood.
Why? Because the old condition or laws was that they were to drink or eat no blood.
Lev 3:17 It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood.
So in answering your question about it being cannibalism, no it’s not. Communion simply means, sharing with Christ in His sufferings.
If we suffer for believing, living and proclaiming Christ, then we share in His sufferings.
Peace>>>AJ
The difference for one is in purpose as stated in my original post. The other is that in cannibalism the person eats the substance along with it's accident, whereas the substance of the bread and wine is changed but the accident isn't.
If you are searching for differences you have two.
AndyF