Immigrant Assimilation

[Jay]

Re: Assimilation of Immigrants

I know my previous suggestion was absurd. It was to make a point. How can we ignore history? So, if I understand correctly, we now have a right to this land because we won?!

Yes, that’s how it works.

What does that say about our sense of ethics as a people?

It says ethics change. They are not static.

To me that says that we believe that might makes right, and the majority rules!

Might, may not make right, but it does make things happen.
And if the majority doesn't rule, why have elections?

That's why I don't label myself a democrat or a supporter of democracy per se, sinse it can easily lead to the tiranny of the majority.

I bet you must feel very comfortable in China then.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Assimilation of Immigrants

I'm surprised that there isn't a mad rush to defend multiculturalism here in this thread....is the tide turning?

There is no need to defend it; it isn't under attack. No one is saying that people of many cultures should not come together and live in peace in Canada. I am in fact promoting it. We don't have multiculturalism; we have ghettoization of ethnic groups.

When multiculturalism was thought of, it wasn't to create various enclaves of people simply sharing the same land; it was more along the lines of have many different kinds of people coming together into one people.

 

[Machjo]

RE: Assimilation of Immigrants

OK, maybe we're just talking past each other here. I can certainly understand ensuring a common language so as to understand one another, and English is the pragmatic choice. If everyone can speak English, for example, then there will be less ghettoization. To that extent, I can accept what I'd refer to as integration, but I wouldn't call it assimilation, which tends to imply a complete assimilation into the majority culture (i.e., become part of it, like the borg). So if it's just a misunderstanding of 'integration' as opposed to 'assimilation', then I can accept your argument. But as for 'assimilation', even if the majority supports it, it would still be wrong.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Assimilation of Immigrants

Sure, modern immigrants come by choice, but then again, do we ourselves own the land we took by force?

Yes, that was the system back then. You went to war and conquered people and took over. It doesn’t mean it was right or that it applies now. We can't go back in time and fix everything. We must move on and progress so that the same mistakes don't happen again.

Are you suggesting might makes right?

To a degree, it still does. Democracy works on that principle. The might of the people governs.

This is a fundamental principle in all life. It is a animal instinct. Do you think animals that drive other heards of animals go back later and give back the land they took over? No! No matter how much we evolve, we are animals as well and have instincts, good or bad.

So if you have land and you want to keep it, you better be able to defend it. Unfortunately, land claim isn't based on a first come first serve basis. (Please don't extrapolate this to a modern example about someone taking over my house and property; there is a system of law and order that governs this now, which didn't exist in the 1500's.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Assimilation of Immigrants

There is no need to defend it; it isn't under attack.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but multiculturalism isn't assimilation.

No one is saying that people of many cultures should not come together and live in peace in Canada.

No one is suggesting they come together and have war.

I am in fact promoting it. We don't have multiculturalism; we have ghettoization of ethnic groups.

Are you sure? I'm now having a hard time believing you understand what multiculturalism is then.

When multiculturalism was thought of, it wasn't to create various enclaves of people simply sharing the same land; it was more along the lines of have many different kinds of people coming together into one people.

You will have to be more specific. When it was thought of where...here in Canada?

Let me say this: Multiculturalism in Canada is the idea that we had 3 major peoples in this country. French, English, and Native. The idea wasn't to assimilate them all into one people, it was a way to work out differences, and not trample on peoples cultures. It doesn't work worth a hill of beans, but the point is, multiculturalism isn't about assimilation.

 

[Machjo]

Re: Assimilation of Immigrants

I know my previous suggestion was absurd. It was to make a point. How can we ignore history? So, if I understand correctly, we now have a right to this land because we won?!

Yes, that’s how it works.

That's reassuring

What does that say about our sense of ethics as a people?

It says ethics change. They are not static.

Change according to the benefit of the majority?

To me that says that we believe that might makes right, and the majority rules!

Might, may not make right, but it does make things happen.
And if the majority doesn't rule, why have elections?

So elections are aobut 'rule' and not making society better? And as for making things happen that aren't right, then it might be better if nothing happens, don't you think?

That's why I don't label myself a democrat or a supporter of democracy per se, sinse it can easily lead to the tiranny of the majority.

I bet you must feel very comfortable in China then.

Actually, I love China. And certainly the Canadian system of government is far superior to the Chinese one. That still doesn't make it perfect however. After all, don't forget, Hitler was democratically elected! So when people think that majority rules is always right, that actually concerns me, especially when we are seeing the rise of the religious far right int he USA.[/b]

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Assimilation of Immigrants

To that extent, I can accept what I'd refer to as integration, but I wouldn't call it assimilation, which tends to imply a complete assimilation into the majority culture (i.e., become part of it, like the borg). So if it's just a misunderstanding of 'integration' as opposed to 'assimilation', then I can accept your argument. But as for 'assimilation', even if the majority supports it, it would still be wrong.

This is a good point, what is assimilation? Perhaps assimilation is too strong of a word; perhaps integration is more appropriate. What would you consider assimilation rather than integration?

You Star Trek Borg analogy is curious, I am not advocating total assimilation such that we all become clones part of one collective. Retention of one's individuality should be mandatory. I am merely seeking more openness by immigrant to embrace the dominant and mainstream culture. This would allow better communication and understand between people. It would help ease racial and ethnic tension. In the end, I believe it would lead to a happier life for the immigrants.

Why do children of immigrants do so much better in society than the actual immigrants? It is because they are fully integrated. Their skin colour or ethnicity hasn't changed; they are just able to march to the beat of the same drum.

 

[DasFX]

Re: Assimilation of Immigrants

Hitler was democratically elected! So when people think that majority rules is always right, that actually concerns me, especially when we are seeing the rise of the religious far right int he USA.

That's how democracy works, the power is in the hands of the people, right or wrong that is their will. Besides, Hitler didn't campaign under the platform of the "Final Solution". He manipulated the German people; he took advantage of a demoralized nation and told them what they wanted to hear.

No one said democracy was perfect, but I think it is the best of all systems available.

 

[Jay]

Re: Assimilation of Immigrants

That's reassuring

You don't have to worry though.

Change according to the benefit of the majority?

Ethics, like language is a living thing, it changes with time. It may benefit the majority, but if the majority agrees with the ethic, it probably means it is "ethical", so to speak.

So elections are aobut 'rule' and not making society better? And as for making things happen that aren't right, then it might be better if nothing happens, don't you think?

Elections are about a mandate to govern. We are presented with options, we vote according to our will (as a free people) and the outcome of those elections determine which policies are most representative of the majority of voters. (This is the simple version of the story.)

Actually, I love China. And certainly the Canadian system of government is far superior to the Chinese one. That still doesn't make it perfect however. After all, don't forget, Hitler was democratically elected! So when people think that majority rules is always right, that actually concerns me, especially when we are seeing the rise of the religious far right int he USA.[/b]

I'm sure China is nice. I wouldn't want to live under its regime, mind you.

The Canadian system of government isn't perfect, perfection is unattainable.

Hitler was democratically elected, but he cancelled elections, so they could not remove him.

The rise of the religious right in the USA, is just as good as the rise of secularism in the USA. If the people vote it in, that is the prerogative of the electorate. What goes up must come down, and on and on it will go. Democracy has a funny way of allowing things to bend, rather than break, and IMHO it stops a lot of violence and civil war.

 

[cub1c]

RE: Assimilation of Immig

Yes assimilation maybe a strong word, for some people. But integration is too weak.

People will probably be tired of me and my Québec, but you can't get Québec out of me. And it just the best example around to explain assimilation. And please don't deny there is no assimilation because it's the only solution federalism sees so we can be unite and stop all the frictions that have been going on for decades. But it's normal people deny that fact because it is so subtile, and passive.

The best example is the Bill 101. If we didn't had René Lévesque to make it and our parents to fight it, what Québec would look like today? I know the awnser. And what is Bill 101? No, we don't force new immigrants to learn French or get out. We are simply telling them, keep you're baggage and culture if you want, but you'll have to send you're kids to French school. Simply because French is the official language of Québec.

But guess what, English Canada still view this as really bad and an attempt to kill multiculturalism. We have to constantly excuse ourself because we are proud of our unique culture. Yes unique, because there is no other country or place in the world that can reprensent our culture. And we are no where near like the Frenchs! This is the worst insult and the biggest sign of ignorance someone can do.

And DasFX is right about ghettoization. You have to be blind to not admit it. Please get back to what multiculturalism really means. Multiculturalism is only good if both, or more, cultures meet and exchange in respect. And if we can make our immigrants speak French, I wonder how they can show us their culture or exchange with us.

 

[Machjo]

RE: Assimilation of Immigrants

Cub1C, that's not what I call assimilation, but rather integration. Yes, they must learn the language of Quebec, and that's reasonable. And for those who are Christian, they can also choose Christian studies in school (though there was talk of World Religions studies at one point, but it seems that idea has been dropped), and I think that's about it! For me, assimilation invovles going well beyond just language and a few religious classes (which can even be substituted for morals classes if the student so wishes). While Bill 101 might go too far in restricting English, and one can argue that any religious classes in school ought to be world religions rather than showing a preference for one particular religion, I'd still not go so far as to call that total assimilation of all aspects of ones culture. In my argument in this thread before, it was merely due to a misunderstandsng of the differentiantion between assimilation and integration. Integration is fine and is even necessary so as to ensure an ability on the part of citizens to understand one another.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Assimilation of Immig

The best example is the Bill 101. If we didn't had René Lévesque to make it and our parents to fight it, what Québec would look like today? I know the awnser. And what is Bill 101? No, we don't force new immigrants to learn French or get out. We are simply telling them, keep you're baggage and culture if you want, but you'll have to send you're kids to French school. Simply because French is the official language of Québec.

I think Bill 101 was a brilliant move for Quebec. If French had become the dominant language in North America and Ontario had become an Island of English, you better believe we would do the same thing. Actually I wish Ontario would adopt some sign law that requires English to be the dominant sign. If you go to Chinatown, Little India, the Pacific Mall in Markham or other ethnic places, you can't read any of the signs. Most are in their native language and if they do have an English sign, it is small and can hardly be seen.

Some of you may argue that it is my choice to go there and that I don't have to. I think this is a poor argument. As a Canadian citizen, I should be able to function anywhere within Canada. We have two official languages; so all signs should be in at least one of them and should be dominant.

The other argument some might suggest is that these stores are only catering to those ethnic groups, well that is very good business sense. Wouldn't one want to be able to serve the largest proportion of people? Besides, aren't these ethnic people supposed to know either official language anyhow? It isn't like they would be excluded (at least theoretically). This issue also increases the “ghettoization” of ethnics as it allows people to get by without having to learn the dominant language.

As for Quebec, the official language is French, plus it is the minority of the two official language. We in Ontario can provide a choice of English or French education because if someone chooses French, English is in no danger of disappearing.

 

[Jay]

Re: Assimilation of Immigrants

Actually I wish Ontario would adopt some sign law that requires English to be the dominant sign. If you go to Chinatown, Little India, the Pacific Mall in Markham or other ethnic places, you can't read any of the signs. Most are in their native language and if they do have an English sign, it is small and can hardly be seen.

Some of you may argue that it is my choice to go there and that I don't have to. I think this is a poor argument. As a Canadian citizen, I should be able to function anywhere within Canada. We have two official languages; so all signs should be in at least one of them and should be dominant.

It is illegal to tell people that they must produce signs in one of the two official languages. So therefore it isn’t a poor argument. If they did pass a law like that, it would require use of the notwithstanding clause of the Charter and have to be reviewed every 5 years.

Here in the West, we have this crazy thing called freedom. Why do you want to change that?

Rather than write stupid laws, how about we only take immigrants from regions of the world who share our culture, and languages. That would solve a lot of the problems you are talking about.

The other argument some might suggest is that these stores are only catering to those ethnic groups, well that is very good business sense. Wouldn't one want to be able to serve the largest proportion of people?

When did it become my or your business what markets these people want to cater too?

Besides, aren't these ethnic people supposed to know either official language anyhow?

What does having to know one of the official languages have to do with the language of your store front sign?

It isn't like they would be excluded (at least theoretically). This issue also increases the “ghettoization” of ethnics as it allows people to get by without having to learn the dominant language.

I thought you just said they had to learn the language.

As for Quebec, the official language is French, plus it is the minority of the two official language. We in Ontario can provide a choice of English or French education because if someone chooses French, English is in no danger of disappearing.

We provide a basic French language in Ontario, for two reasons.

1st- many people like myself are of historical French descent in Ontario.

2nd- is to support the idea of two official languages, and to give it relevance outside of Quebec.

I want to see it mandatory that French be taught through out the school system, from grade 1 to 12. In a few years everyone will be speaking it, and we will truly be a bilingual province. It will allow us in the future to study French literature effectively like we do English.

Just because we invite immigrants in from very foreign places doesn't mean we are going to trample on the freedoms of people so you can force them to speak certain languages, and so you can read store front signs. If this "ghettoization" you speak of is such a problem, well I guess the government should have thought about that before they invited in the immigrants whom fall into this ghettoization category.

This freedom we have fought very hard for in the West isn't some willy nilly thing we can just dispose of to satisfy the ideals of some people.

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Assimilation of Immigrants

Cub1C, that's not what I call assimilation, but rather integration. Yes, they must learn the language of Quebec, and that's reasonable. And for those who are Christian, they can also choose Christian studies in school (though there was talk of World Religions studies at one point, but it seems that idea has been dropped), and I think that's about it!

Maybe you see it as integration, but remember that it's a widespread mentality accross English Canada that this is a racist behavior. As for world religion studies, is has become a no-debate over the issue, in fact, we are in the process of implementing a school reform in Québec to change all religion courses to internationnal religion courses. Like the one I had when I was in high school.

In my argument in this thread before, it was merely due to a misunderstandsng of the differentiantion between assimilation and integration. Integration is fine and is even necessary so as to ensure an ability on the part of citizens to understand one another.

Yes, but since it is really hard and a very long process to change society's mentality. English Canada will is not close to understand those differences and how important it is for Québec to make radical changes to preserve our culture.

 

[DasFX]

Re: Assimilation of Immigrants

It is illegal to tell people that they must produce signs in one of the two official languages. So therefore it isn’t a poor argument. If they did pass a law like that, it would require use of the notwithstanding clause of the Charter and have to be reviewed every 5 years. Here in the West, we have this crazy thing called freedom. Why do you want to change that?

Umm, how does this go against any freedoms? The government already dictates signs, labelling in every other aspect. There is nothing wrong with mandating the the sign be in at least on of the official languages. I didn't say the other language couldn't be present.

Rather than write stupid laws, how about we only take immigrants from regions of the world who share our culture, and languages. That would solve a lot of the problems you are talking about.

So rather than have people put signs in English as well as their native language, we should adopt a discrimatory immigration policy that would stop most people of colour from immigrating. Yes, that is so much more in line with the Charter of Rights.

When did it become my or your business what markets these people want to cater too?

It isn't anyones buisness, I was just pointing out that according to most business theories, reaching a larger market usually correlates to more business. I wasn't suggesting mandating this, just pointing out common sense.

What does having to know one of the official languages have to do with the language of your store front sign?

Nothing, I was merely pointing out the fact that, immigrants are supposedly supposed to know one of the official languages when they come, so by putting the sign in English or French wouldn't necessarily cause immigrants to no longer understand the sign.

I want to see it mandatory that French be taught through out the school system, from grade 1 to 12. In a few years everyone will be speaking it, and we will truly be a bilingual province. It will allow us in the future to study French literature effectively like we do English.

I agree with this notion!

Just because we invite immigrants in from very foreign places doesn't mean we are going to trample on the freedoms of people so you can force them to speak certain languages, and so you can read store front signs.

Who's trampling on anyone's rights? Nobody is really forcing them to learn anything (although we should only take in people who already know either language). It is in every immigrant's best interest to learn English and or French since this is predominately an English and French speaking country.

I'm just suggesting that English and/or French should be the standard and common language in all public places. Anything in addition to that is solely up to the proprietor.

If this "ghettoization" you speak of is such a problem, well I guess the government should have thought about that before they invited in the immigrants whom fall into this ghettoization category.

Hmmm, well all immigrants from any country tend to form ghettos to some extent, so basically that would exclude all immigrants or are you just talking about the coloured ones?

This freedom we have fought very hard for in the West isn't some willy nilly thing we can just dispose of to satisfy the ideals of some people.

This isn't about freedom; no one is saying that someone can't do something. I am suggesting that a common standard be in place, such as language. Most of our laws are there to provide some sort of standard and to provide guidelines, what is wrong with doing the same with stores open to the public at large?

 

[Jay]

Re: Assimilation of Immigrants

Umm, how does this go against any freedoms? The government already dictates signs, labelling in every other aspect. There is nothing wrong with mandating the the sign be in at least on of the official languages. I didn't say the other language couldn't be present.

If it wasn't against freedom of expression etc, we wouldn't have to use the notwithstanding clause to enforce it.

So rather than have people put signs in English as well as their native language, we should adopt a discrimatory immigration policy that would stop most people of colour from immigrating. Yes, that is so much more in line with the Charter of Rights.

The Charter is there to protect Canadians.

Who's trampling on anyone's rights?

Any one who would force them to put a sign for a store front in a particular language is.

Hmmm, well all immigrants from any country tend to form ghettos to some extent, so basically that would exclude all immigrants or are you just talking about the coloured ones?

Well I live in a Canadian city, the tenth largest one….we don’t have ghettos containing certain types of people only. If immigrants want to, or tend to move into neighborhoods that contain only their particular ethnic group that’s their concern, not mine, and not yours.

I used to live in a place with a large Portuguese population, they didn’t form a ghetto. They lived and worked in the same places as everyone else. The only separating factor was they sent their kids to a Catholic school, rather then the “public” schools, so I didn’t hang out with many of their kids. I did however end up working in the same factories as they did, and bought my groceries in the same stores….

I’m saying that if you’re concerned about this so called ghettoisation of ethnic groups, rather than force me to put signs up in a particular language, don’t bring in immigrants that will do that. Bring in ones that won’t form ghettos, and already speak the languages and are familiar with our culture.

I take it your not familure with Africans who speak French, or English, or not familiar with East Indians who speak English, or English speaking Jamaicans, or Germans who speak English, or Jordanians who speak French.

I must say this is the second time you have brought up this “the coloured ones” business. Is there something you would like to say rather than imply?

This isn't about freedom; no one is saying that someone can't do something. I am suggesting that a common standard be in place, such as language. Most of our laws are there to provide some sort of standard and to provide guidelines, what is wrong with doing the same with stores open to the public at large?

Yes it is about freedom. You are saying they can’t put up a sign in the language they wish to, so you’re saying they can’t do something and you’re telling them they have to do something. While it may be that some of the laws are to provide a standard...the standard in this case is already in place, and that would be you can't force people to put store front signs in a particular language it goes against freedom of expression.


We don’t live in Quebec, and there is no reason whatsoever we should force ppl to provide English and/or on their store front signs.

 

[canuck3000]

RE: Assimilation of Immigrants

Leaving Canada, the best thing a Canadian can do

Here are some of the reasons that I am a firm believer for the past 10 years or so that for a Canadian, the best thing to do for your life, career and future is simply -> to leave Canada.

Realities of Canada:

1) No jobs, No opportunities

Yes, this is true. Why? Because the market is completely saturated. There so many Bachelors degrees being pumped out of Universities across Canada that a B.Sc. or a B.A. has become completely useless.

People graduated after four or five years of undergrad and find themselves unemployed. Or (if they are lucky) working full time at the place they were working part time as a student.

Canada is a dry well for jobs, no matter how many times you throw in the bucket, you won't come up with any water. Some mud perhaps.

2) Immigration patterns have ruined the country

Yes, this is true. Unlike the U.S. that invites people to all places. Canada has people clustered in only three area -> Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

What is the result of this? Thousands and thousands of Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese, Koreans, Japansese etc all jammed packed liked sardines in small areas.

They are working in factories, driving taxi cabs or delivering pizzas.

Then when their children grow up they have the immigrant dreams, but since there are so many of them in these areas that all the spots are taken!

For example, for medical school, Ontario ranks #1 in North America for the most difficult place to gain admission. It's a 1 in 7 ratio to get in.

In United States? It's a 1 in 2 ratio to get into medical school.

3) Why do this new generation stay in Canada then?

Good question. The answers are surprising simple -> insecurity, lack of self confidence, refusal to face reality, inability to leave the parental home.

This is especially common among certain minorities that have a culture that promotes grown men and women to live at home with their parents.

The culture promotes elitism, where they only associate with the same type. (Further adding to the total lack of community feel that exists among Canadian cities. No assimilation or integration whatsoever.)

This new generation has been so brain washed by their parents, that they lack the self confidence to move to another place and achieve their goals and take advantage of the great opportunities that exist in the United States.


------------------------------------------

look basically it goes like this:

1) These Canadians having realized that it is soooooo tough to get into a med school in Canada (Ontario is the toughest in all of North America by the way) they go abroad to attend foreign medical schools.

2) They don't really know what they are getting themselves into until they get there and find out the realities

3) When the find out that they will not be able to return to Canada, they get pissed off and try desperately to refuse to believe it

4) But after these Canadians get residency in the U.S., they get comfortable with the U.S. lifestyle

5) After they finish residency in the U.S. and are offered these 'fat' salaries they are MORE than willing to stay in the U.S. and quickly develop amnesia about Canada (Canada? where is that?)


I have seen this scenario over and over. . .

 

[peapod]

Re: Assimilation of Immigrants

Not much different from your senerio tho is it?? me, whine, greed.
Its also pretty obvious what your doing to, trying to pit one country againist another. You want to live in the states, go ahead, you find more opportunity there, have at her. You think we care that you want to live in the states, nada...your choice. You think the united states is a better country, again who cares, really?? get over yourself.
You don't speak for all immigrants, in fact your probally speak for a few. You can't find a job in your field, well take your own advice and venture out and use some creativity, even better select another option, anything can be achieved if you want it bad enough.
Immigrants childern are not brainwashed, they live in two worlds, and many that I know do just fine in both. Your living in america now, get over your sour grapes and enjoy your new life.

 

[Jay]

RE: Assimilation of Immigrants

"Because the market is completely saturated. There so many Bachelors degrees being pumped out of Universities across Canada that a B.Sc. or a B.A. has become completely useless. "

This part is sorta true though.

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

Re: Assimilation of Immigrants

As the prodigy of visible minority immigrants, I've seen first hand the struggles that new immigrants face. Torn between a society in the old country and a new foreign society, many are often left with a difficult decision. Do I assimilate or do I remain true to my roots. Many things skew immigrants to chose the latter, the feeling of not belonging, perceived racism, not being knowledgeable about the language, culture and society, however I think it is the wrong choice.

So many immigrants, in my opinion, try to re-create the old country here. They never learn the language (well) and therefore are forced to interact with "their own kind" only. Many people call me and my sisters "Coconuts". (Brown on the outside, white in the middle) but I don't care. I have not betrayed India, I was born here, and I grew up here. I have no loyalty to India. That being said, I still know a lot about it, I know about the culture, religion, language and traditions of my parent's homeland, but I also know the same about my homeland.

Hi DasFx,

you have an interesting point of view and I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I gave it some thought and based on what I have seen from immigrant friends/relatives and from my travels abroad, I figure that there can be a positive light to all of this.

First of all, like you, my parents were immigrants as well. They embraced Canada because they knew it was the key to a better life. However, similar to your situation, they also kept their customs, traditions, and langauges and made sure that their kids (me and my siblings) got exposed to this as well as giving us the freedom of embracing the new with the old. They didn't force us, they gave us the choice. Like you, I chose to grow up being a Canadian while embracing my roots. I feel that I am lucky because I am able to understand both. I have to thank my parents for this, really, because I have seen many kids of these immigrants lose their langauge and culture completely.

This leads me to my second point, what good is it to have a society where everybody acts the same, embraces the same values, culture, etc, etc, and the only distinguishing feature is the colour of their skin? It is one thing to assimilate/integrate, but it is another to just give up everything to be something else. I think what makes Canada so great is the diversity that exists within it. One of the problems we face today is that some people can't tolerate the customs of other ethnic groups and some over-generalize a race based on the actions of a few bad people. Education may help to solve this problem. Please keep reading...

You mentioned that many immigrants try to re-create their old country. I can understand why immigrants would want to do this. It's not because they are racist or prejudice or whatever, it is because they are vulnerable and as they say there is safety in numbers. I've had a couple of girlfriends (and friends) that have come to Canada from a non-English speaking country. As I got to know them, I've found that there are certain individuals that prey on these new and naive immigrants. As you probably know, Canada is known for it's space and to get from one place to another, you will need a car at some point in time (as public transit can't take you everywhere). One of my gf's bought a rusty 1991 BMW that had a lot of issues for $12,000. I believe she overpaid. Had I known her at that time, I would have probably saved her some money, but because she was a new immigrant from a place where cars are more expensive (Taiwan) and not knowing anything about cars, she didn't know any better. I won't even go into how much she paid for her condo because that would just make me mad.

To me, having re-creations of old countries from different types of people is an advantage for Canada. It shows visitors to this country the different ethnic groups that exist within it and the history that it carries. When I was on vacation in Shanghai, one of the first places I visited was the Old Bund and the New Bund. What makes the Old Bund so interesting is because it was a replica of European culture... in China. I'm amazed when walking through the streets and looking around, you would never have guessed you were in China. Then there is the history behind it and how the Europeans took advantage of the Chinese during those days and how things have changed since then. This is the type of education I'm talking about. You can't deny and ignore the fact that there was rampant racism against the Chinese at that time, but the key to the experience is that things have changed since then... attitudes have changed. This is reinforced with the fact that by looking across the river you get a spectacular view of the New Bund. A sign of the new China that has moved past the problems of the past. The old with the new.

In Vancouver, these old countries now are becoming an attraction for visitors. Tourism. We now have an historic Chinatown near downtown Vancouver, we have a new Chinatown in Richmond, we have an Indian section near 49th & Main, we have an Italian section near Commercial st, we have a Korean section on North Rd, I could go on and on... easy. Some of the advantages to all these different ethnic groups located in different areas is that it eases the transition for new immigrants from what they are used to, to what they should expect in Canada. I think it is a *big* mistake to just put immigrants right smack in the middle of a different culture. Not only will there be culture shock on both sides, it probably introduces the type of things that we all hate ... misconceptions, intolerance, over-genereralizatons, misunderstanding (all which leads to worse things like racism)... simply because their cultures are different and they don't understand why. Instead, what these old-countries do is help these new immigrants get settled in and learn the nuances of Canadian culture so that they don't get offended or whatever when they see something they don't understand. Unfortunately, some immigrants choose not to learn about Canada and I think it is their loss... not ours.

It always give me a great sense of patriotism when people of a different culture attempt to learn the traditions of another. We are all living under the same roof (Canada) so why not learn everything there is to learn about each other? It only makes us better not worse. This is the education I'm talking about. So when we go travelling abroad and even here in Canada, and see, for example, Japanese people loudly sucking and slurping their noodles, we don't prejudge them as being rude because we understand that it is their culture.