How will a Conservative government be better?

[Reverend Blair]

RE: How will a Conservati

First of all if you are going to start using term like Lieberals, Fiberals, or start calling the NDP communists, then you'd better get used to being called a pig-f**king nazi child molester who would whore out his mother for the deposit on an empty beer bottle.

I've run out of tolerance for the crap that comes from the right. If you want to have a political discussion, then let's do it. If you want call names then lets start a thread and do that. I can and will make you cry though, so you might want to give it some deep thought.

My response to your post was that, as alluded to in the Flintstones reference, is that there is a very cartoonish view of political parties, especially on the right, in this country.

You want to discuss modern conservatism? Then you'd best learn about neo-conservatism/neo-liberalism. You want to discuss the left and democratic socialism and the progressive movement? Then you better have a long look at Marxism, anarchism (not your mindless and erroneous preconceptions either), and the very valid work of socialists all over the planet.

You presented a cartoon view of Stephen Harper and his redneck party. You expectedd a serious response? Pffffffft.

 

[OakServe]

RE: How will a Conservati

bluealberta, i don't think you grasp what Canada is about. By constitution, we are a fairly socialistic entity. If what you want is miniscule government then you are in the wrong country my friend. Canadians are proud of our public health care system, of the respect that we command internationally as opposed to our southern neighbours. Ideally, government is the powerful arm of the citizens of Canada, and many of us are working to mold it into just that. I don't think the answer to our problems is to just give up on government... to just shrink it and stow it in a corner. Government is needed to hold the corporations in check, united we stand divided we fall my friend. Who will speak for you if everyone is looking out for themselves? Who will you petition when a loaf of bread costs $10 and when you must sell your car and house to pay for the medical costs of a broken leg? To me, private business doesn't know how to restrain itself. Profit is the only word they can hear.

I do not like the Liberals. I completely abhor the Conservatives. Given a choice between the two, I feel ill and I am intimidated by the amount of work this country needs before we can have a presentable government. For now Canadians must do what we are doing, communicating in a forum of some sort whether it be in the dining room, in the staff lounge or in an online forum. Keep voting for whoever represents you best. I agree that we must remember to read the policies of these parties and follow our gut instinct when we look at their faces. I find both Conservative and Liberal members look very seedy. But Canada is NOT a right-wing country. I beg all of you to not vote for the Conservatives... no matter how desperate this project called democracy may seem, we mustn't bare our throats to the wolves.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: How will a Conservati

I'd like to agree with that and encourage you not to vote for the Liberals either. You all know I'm NDP, but you all know that I've mentioned other parties too, even ones I don't agree with. Check them out.

There comes a time. This is it.

 

[MMMike]

I beg all of you to not vote for the Conservatives... no matter how desperate this project called democracy may seem, we mustn't bare our throats to the wolves.

Don't kid yourself, there are just as many people in Canada who lean right rather than left. People who want the government to be their servant, not their nanny. People who believe in free enterprise and individual freedoms.

Don't believe the myth that the Conservatives are the big bad boogeyman. Read their policies, they are not far from the liberals. I know Stephen is a little creepy looking, but politics is not a beauty contest. I will concede that he is just not a warm and fuzzy type of guy, but he does have substance.

 

[OakServe]

RE: How will a Conservati

Ultimately I have to agree with you too Reverend.

Although one theory is that in order to make your vote count you must vote for the party which best represents you while also possessing a chance of being elected or forming a substantial voice in parliament. So sometimes voting for the party which best represents you, while a noble move on your part, will not result in an immediate improvement of government.

That is one approach. But if everyone votes true to the party that best represents them, ignoring short-term strategy, they are still making a good choice I think. In the long term if people steadily cast their ballots for their favorite party then that party has more of a chance to grow, and maybe one day play a role or even become elected. But if we continually vote based on short-term strategy, (i.e. voting conservative to prevent liberal re-election even if you do not support either party at heart) then your views and ideals will never reach parliament. The party that best represents you needs your support and your vote in order for it to ever reach the power to help you and speak for you.

Therefore the best advice to give is to say this:
Go to the Elections Canada website (elections.ca) and browse the registered parties, read what they are about, find one that speaks to you above the rest. Try your best during the campaigns to find out about the parties and vote based on what a party stands for ethically and how YOU relate to it. Ignore the short-term strategy because really, long-term strategy is always better. Suffering a bit more today so that the future will be brighter has always been a quality that humans can be proud of.

 

[Scape]

That is basically the choice to make: more government with the liberals and NDP or less with the conservatives.

Oh, then the GST, FTA and NAFTA was just less government with more filling then?

I love these poor sods who think there is a real difference between the Libs and the cons. Really I do and would love to play poker with them sometime. The only difference between the two is that the Liberals will sell us out and the Cons will do it FASTER. Maybe if Harper put his money where his mouth was and expelled idiots in his caucus that defy that message and and get rid of his ties with the Bilderbergs his party would not have such a huge credibility problem. Pictures of the meeting

In his own words.

 

[Chake99]

The difference is that the liberals will cut money from social programs to pay down a deficit, while the Consercatives will sell off social programs to fund tax cuts and will run in the red anyway.

And social is more efficient than private, a social service has only to balance its expenses with income while a private agency must turn a huge profit too.

So with social services on average people end up paying less.

And Reverend Blair, if you think that BlueAlberta's arguments are BS go through them and tell him why, don't cover your ears while screaming "right-wing propaganda from someone uninformed."

I think the main point of the government is to make it in the best interest of people to help each other, and to create circumstances where people better themselves while creating a fairly level playing field for life.

However I do not think it is the job of the government to take care of the people. It is one's individual responsibility to take care of oneself (unless you are physically incapable of doing so in which case you should try your hardest and be supported)

Therefore as distatesful as their party is, I'm a Liberal.

 

[Reverend Blair]

But if everyone votes true to the party that best represents them,

I put up whack of party links in their own separate thread. Each leads to the web page of the party...no spin by me. I even put the elected ones up by the number of seats. If I missed anybody, put it up.

After watching this latest debacle, and having lived through so many others, I think it's time we all voted...brutally.

 

[no1important]

RE: How will a Conservati

Well you do not hear the likes of Bush, talking about conservation, just "finding new energy supplies". Klein, Campbell and Harper are no diferent.

Take take and take and screw the future, just make as much money as we can now. They know they will not be around to suffer the conquences.

I myself would like to have a descent world left for my future bloodlines.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: How will a Conservati

I don't even have future bloodlines, and i agree with you, No1. I'm pretty sure I won't live forever, but the concept of leaving somthing for the next guy really isn't that complicated.

Those who are incapable of understanding that can try to justify themselves though. They'll use economics as an excuse. Let's watch. ;-)

 

[OakServe]

RE: How will a Conservati

Sometimes I think adolf hitler himself could run for an election if he could prove he would make our economy prosper. I just wish for once everyone could agree that people are more important than money.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: How will a Conservati

What makes me really cringe is that the economics they put forth are false. You don't use up all of your capital for short-term gain because you will need it later. You don't do things that will incur huge costs later because you will have to pay those costs.

Then they tell us that we don't understand economics.

 

[whicker]

Could someone explain 'proportional govt' for me please?

 

[no1important]

Could someone explain 'proportional govt' for me please?

say there are 100 seats up for grabs

Libs gets 40 percent of vote and would get 40 seats
Cons gets 5 percent of vote and would get 5 seats
NDP gets 51% of the votes and would get 51 seats
Marijuana Party gets 4% of vote and would get 4 seats

Basically the percentage of the vote you get in an election would be the percent of seats you get in the House of Commons or Provincial Leg.

Some full proportionate work that you have to get at 3% or 5% of vote before you get a seat.

The problem with that is , is how to draw up ridings and assign mp's or mla's to those ridings.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: How will a Conservati

No. I can give you a general overview, but there are many different forms of it so what form it would take here would have to be decided.

Proportional representation is basically each party getting seats that correspond to it's proportion of the popular vote.
Let's pretend, because I suck at math, that there are only 100 seats in the HofC. Right now it's possible, even common, for something like this to happen:

Libs Cons NDP BQ Greens
% of vote 35 25 20 15 5
# of seats 52 28 10 20 0

So in PR you add seats (we're going to use another 100 because of the math) and give those to the parties so that the seats=the percentage of the vote.

Libs Cons NDP BQ Greens
add. Seats 18 22 30 10 10
total seats 70 50 40 30 10

The number of seats now correspond with the percentage of the popular vote (I likely screwed up the math, but whatever), and we are in a perpetual minority government giving additional power to the opposition parties and forcing the parties to work together to govern.

There are, as I said before, various forms of PR, but that's the basic idea.

 

[whicker]

Thanks both.
In order for it to be fairish across Canada would some form have to be created and accepted by all provinces?
Also, would a province with small population sort of be left out in the cold?
When it comes to politics all I know is minimal and what I like/agree with or don't so if I am asking what you consider to be stupid questions please be patient.

 

[MMMike]

And social is more efficient than private, a social service has only to balance its expenses with income while a private agency must turn a huge profit too.

So with social services on average people end up paying less

:laughing3: That's a good one. That must be why it cost the taxpayer $2 billion dollars to create a list of gun owners. A LIST! I guess since government is more efficient than private enterprise, we should get into the auto making business and put GM out of business. Or lets start in IT - look out big blue! It must be more efficient then, if the government took control of all business in the entire country. Oh wait, that's been tried before.

Give your head a shake! :scratch:

 

[MMMike]

Also, would a province with small population sort of be left out in the cold?

No, they would get the same representation based on population as anywhere. It would get rid of the absurd situation where there are 4 MP's for a population of 140,000 (PEI) while in metropolitan areas one MP can represent an equivalent population.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Thanks both.
In order for it to be fairish across Canada would some form have to be created and accepted by all provinces?
Also, would a province with small population sort of be left out in the cold?
When it comes to politics all I know is minimal and what I like/agree with or don't so if I am asking what you consider to be stupid questions please be patient.

The House of Commons represents the federal government, Whicker. The Senate represents, or is supposed to represent, the provinces. There are PR models that take regional population disparities into account though, others do not. Some suggested systems even take groups like natives into account, or attempt to address economic disparities.

 

[smitty295]

a conservitive governemtn will be much better because honesty if we have paul martins corrupt librals winning office again this coutries going literally to hell because prostitution will be legalised, gay marige is legalised, pot is legalised as well as puligomy and god knows what else, than theres the blocs who all they want is to make quebec its own county plain and simple, than finnaly NDP who all jack layton is, is an environment sucker who wants to waste millions of dollars on kyoto and mnay other environmentaly freindly stuff. I think Steven Harpers the best choice because he will strenghthen are military which should be a priority considering are military right now! He also promoses missile deffense which I beleive is a good think to do i dont care what people say. well thats my oppinion. :!: