How important is Canada's human rights record to its influence abroad?

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Seeing that the UN Human Rights Committee has criticized Ontario's Separate school system:

United Nations Human Rights Website - Treaty Bodies Database - Document - Jurisprudence - Canada

And certain aspects of Quebec's Bill 101 (specifically its sign laws):

Ballantyne, Davidson, McIntyre v. Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and
University of Minnesota Human Rights Library

I'm sure there are likely documents concerning our disrespect of First Nations treaties, but since I can't find any, I'll let that one go for now.

However, do you believe that by ignoring explicit condemnations of UNHRC criticisms of specific international human rights laws in Canada undermine's Canada's credibility when promoting human rights abroad by making Canada come across as hypocritical?

Just to take the above examples, would it not be extremely easy to solve the separate school system in Ontario by either:

1. Adopting a single school system as some propose,
2. Turning to a school voucher system, as others have proposed, or
3. finding some other means of ensuring all religious communities are treated equally either by restricting funding to all religious education or making it equally available to all religious communities.

Any of the solutions above could fulfill the requirement it would seem. Sweden's school voucher system has proven highly effective too by the way, though it does prohibit any participating school, private or or state-owned, secular or religious, from discriminating against students on the basis of religion, having to accept them on a first-come, first-served basis, and accommodating them as required. Religious schools are not prohibited from participating, though I wouldn't be surprised if many of them, other than the more progressive ones, have chosen not to participate in such a programme.

The point though is that there would be so many varying ways of fulfilling this requirement by simply treating all religious communities equally.

As for Quebec's Bill 101, why could Quebec not repeal the restrictions on non-French-language commercial signs and instead simply adopt a Hungarian-style second-language programme in its schools, essentially allowing each school to teach the second-language of its choice as long as it can maintain the course's pedagogical integrity, and allowing students to take fulfill their second-language requirement in school likewise in a second-language of their choice among all the second-languages taught in the province. This way, with perhaps a few French-medium schools in the province choosing to offer alternatives to English as a second language, and maybe a few students choosing an alternative second-language to fulfill high school requirements, English would naturally become less of a threat to the French language without having to violate the basic rights of English-speakers in the province.

I'm sure plenty of other solutions could be presented too.

But in the end, how do you think Canada's human rights record affects its credibility in promoting human rights abroad?
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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To be criticized by the terrorist-run UN is a badge I'd honor for Canada.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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If that's the worst they can dig up it's light years ahead of the east.
 

Trotz

Electoral Member
May 20, 2010
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Urgh,
the U.N. was a fine institution in the 1950s and 1960s but since the entrance of multiple pseduo-countries (warlord) states from Africa, it's full of bastards like Gaddafi, Ahmadinejad, Mugagbe and Kim IL Jong who are voicing demands and want free stuff.

If we had any sense we would return to gunboat diplomacy and start shelling their cities, Gaddafi I understand is still spooked over the U.S. bombing of his house.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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To be criticized by the terrorist-run UN is a badge I'd honor for Canada.

Right on. So we should take great pride in Ontario's discriminatory educational practices and Quebec's intrusive sign laws.

But of course the UN is a great friend as a means to criticize other nations I assume?

Unless I'm wrong about you and you just believe in isolationism, live and let live? If so, then while I'd disagree with such a position, at least you'd be consistent. However, something tells me that while you don't appreciate international criticism of Canada's human rights laws, you're very much in favour when the UN criticizes China's or Iran's unjust laws towards religious minorities.

If that's the worst they can dig up it's light years ahead of the east.

Japan is in the east, while the easternmost part of Western Sahara is about as far west than the westernmost part of Great Britain. So I doubt very much is has anything to do with east and west.

If that's the worst they can dig up it's light years ahead of the east.

Perhaps. But one difference is that we live here, and so unlike the laws of the east, Canada's laws actually apply to us.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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Right on. So we should take great pride in Ontario's discriminatory educational practices and Quebec's intrusive sign laws.

But of course the UN is a great friend as a means to criticize other nations I assume?

Unless I'm wrong about you and you just believe in isolationism, live and let live? If so, then while I'd disagree with such a position, at least you'd be consistent. However, something tells me that while you don't appreciate international criticism of Canada's human rights laws, you're very much in favour when the UN criticizes China's or Iran's unjust laws towards religious minorities.



Japan is in the east, while the easternmost part of Western Sahara is about as far west than the westernmost part of Great Britain. So I doubt very much is has anything to do with east and west.



Perhaps. But one difference is that we live here, and so unlike the laws of the east, Canada's laws actually apply to us.
It's all a helluva lot more East than North America. I wouldn't worry too much about our standing. Immigrants phone back to their homelands to laugh at relatives.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Urgh,
the U.N. was a fine institution in the 1950s and 1960s but since the entrance of multiple pseduo-countries (warlord) states from Africa, it's full of bastards like Gaddafi, Ahmadinejad, Mugagbe and Kim IL Jong who are voicing demands and want free stuff.

If we had any sense we would return to gunboat diplomacy and start shelling their cities, Gaddafi I understand is still spooked over the U.S. bombing of his house.

Hmmm... I just looked up the term gunboat diplomacy a little further:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunboat_diplomacy

You really want to go back to that in the nuclear age? I'd far rather promote trade talks peacefully without threat of coercion. The Age of Imperialism ought to be over by now.

Do we really need another Opium War to sell our goods?

It's all a helluva lot more East than North America. I wouldn't worry too much about our standing. Immigrants phone back to their homelands to laugh at relatives.

Why stoop so low as to compare Canada to the worst offenders? Instead, why not compare Canada to the US, the UK, and other countries and try to rise above them instead?

To pride in Canada's record being better than Iran's would be like a straight B student comparing his grade to a failing student. Would it not be better for him to compare himself to the straight A student? By comparing himself to the one, he's likely to stagnate; to the other, he's likely to push himself harder.

It's all a helluva lot more East than North America. I wouldn't worry too much about our standing. Immigrants phone back to their homelands to laugh at relatives.

By the way, what are you implying about the UK here?
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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when the countries that make up the unhrc have as good a human rights record as Canada or better, then I will listen to them. Untill then, they can kiss my rosy red asshole.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
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What is there to be compared with the US and UK etc? These countries know our record is pretty good. You're pointing to the UN and presumably everyone else on the list. Their relatives live here and they chat by phone. They'll believe their relatives before worrying about what some UN report said about an issue in Canada that, when compared to the nonsense happening in their homelands, is a non starter.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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Right on. So we should take great pride in Ontario's discriminatory educational practices and Quebec's intrusive sign laws.

But of course the UN is a great friend as a means to criticize other nations I assume?

Unless I'm wrong about you and you just believe in isolationism, live and let live? If so, then while I'd disagree with such a position, at least you'd be consistent. However, something tells me that while you don't appreciate international criticism of Canada's human rights laws, you're very much in favour when the UN criticizes China's or Iran's unjust laws towards religious minorities.
The UN is a waste of time and space, period.
 

Trotz

Electoral Member
May 20, 2010
893
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The U.N. is not completely useless but will be once they keep adding in more Permanent SC members (such as the all powerful Brazil, the invincible Empire of South Africa, et al). Veto just means countries will return to bilateral agreements or simply ignore the U.N. altogether, not necessarily a bad thing considering post-70s and onwards it has become a Marxist institution in all but name.

The original league of nations was just as big of a joke, just a place where the career politicians went on vacation to Geneva (at tax payer's expense) and simply drunk all day and stammered into the assembly.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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The United Nations, as it presently exists, is the international community's most valuable stage for discussion and aided negotiations. However, as it endeavours to inch closer to what might be considered a world or global governing body, it offends the principles of individual state sovereignty, and it offends standards of decent government. A body that recognises the absolute right of the People's Republic of China to veto the consensus of the international community is a body that should have no considerable role in international decision-making.