An (atheist) colleague of mine sent me this site (www.godisimaginary.com) and bet me $250 that I could not "scientifically counter" half of the "proofs" listed. I tried to explain that faith goes beyond science but he will have none of it. So far I have not managed to disprove any to his satisfaction. Can anyone help me? In addition to the money, I would like to make a point to him.
Help!
- Thread starter RD1988
- Start date
That's funny. Good luck with proving that Go is not imaginary. Let us know when you succeed.
And what is the point you'd like to make to him? I think it's a little unfair of him to demand you "scientifically counter" those arguments. This is not really a subject area where science has much to say. He should also understand, as should you, that nothing at that site amounts to a proof, they are merely arguments in favour of disbelief. Some of them are not very good, like #39, which is really just an ad hominem attack on Jesus. Any philosopher or logician would immediately agree that's not a legitimate argument. I haven't read all the arguments, but there's probably at least one more ad hominem attack there, on god as he appears in the Old Testament as a vengeful, murderous, jealous, and generally pretty nasty character. None of that has any bearing on whether god exists or not, so there are probably at least two arguments you can dismiss as illegitimate because they're just ad hominem attacks.
Do you have to give him $250 if you fail to scientifically counter those arguments? And who judges whether you succeed or fail? Him? Not fair, he's not an impartial judge. He's got $250 riding on the outcome, and you can reasonably assume he doesn't want to give it to you. I fear you've accepted a fool's bet. You can't win, and logically neither can he, though he doesn't appear to know that. It is in principle not possible to prove god does not exist, it's only possible to prove he does, and that would require God himself to step in and unequivocally demonstrate his reality in some dramatic fashion. All we can argue about is probabilities.
What I'd do in your position is study up on the common logical fallacies, like the ad hominem argument, the argument from authority, the argument from incredulity, begging the question, stuff like that, and see how many of the arguments at that site you can reject as illegitimate with them. You can find a pretty good list of assorted logical fallacies and explanations here: http://www.skepdic.com/tilogic.html . Some of them don't apply to this circumstance, but a little reading will soon make it clear to you which ones are useful. And of course you'll have to be careful not to fall into the same traps yourself. You can't, for instance, cite scripture as proof of god's existence, that's an argument from authority and logically unsound.
Good luck, and I hope you can at least have some fun with this.
OK, here are some links that should offer you some assistance in the matter. Keep in mind that your buddy is not going to be inclined to agree with the existence of God that he rejects, any more than you might be willing to succomb to his point of view.
http://www.isthereagod.org/
Interesting study here in oppositional forces
I wonder why money has to be involved as in a bet and why would there be a "winner and a loser" involved??
I thought religious belief and opinion whether imaginary or not - belongs to the individual.
Ergo there is no right versus wrong. A useless argument hunting for debate.
I also wonder why people get so worked up about what others believe - are they not satisfied to cater to their own personal guidance - should that not be enough for them to gain serenity and comfort?
We all have our own inner lives into which we allow very few.
I wonder why money has to be involved as in a bet and why would there be a "winner and a loser" involved??
I thought religious belief and opinion whether imaginary or not - belongs to the individual.
Ergo there is no right versus wrong. A useless argument hunting for debate.
I also wonder why people get so worked up about what others believe - are they not satisfied to cater to their own personal guidance - should that not be enough for them to gain serenity and comfort?
We all have our own inner lives into which we allow very few.
I quite agree. Further, who-ever wins this silly bet, will it make a difference to either of the two? will either of the two switch their beliefs to match the views of the other? I would think not, so one wonders what the point is.
Sanctus... could it be....
Man's life-long desire to be competitive and win over those from the "other side".
It's what makes us a great society I think.... (are we great?)
I'm all for debate but religion and winning money seems a waste of a couple of neat minds.
Why don't they debate some current issues of the day - you never know who's going to come up with some solutions.
I often wonder about that when I read some blitzing ideas on forums - and these are just from people sitting at home having a nice day.....I say "Why aren't they leading us?"
Man's life-long desire to be competitive and win over those from the "other side".
It's what makes us a great society I think.... (are we great?)
I'm all for debate but religion and winning money seems a waste of a couple of neat minds.
Why don't they debate some current issues of the day - you never know who's going to come up with some solutions.
I often wonder about that when I read some blitzing ideas on forums - and these are just from people sitting at home having a nice day.....I say "Why aren't they leading us?"