Health Authorities

[tracy]

No-one said "always", but I did say I'd be interested in seeing something done more efficiently in public than in private. Also by definition, private companies don't like an overabundance of administration, paying the proverbial "$400 for a toilet seat", etc. sort of thing whereas gov'ts don't seem to mind..

They do cause that sort of waste. Administrative costs are much more expensive here because of the different insurance companies, different plans, etc. It adds an entirely new level of beaurocracy to what already existed.

In BC?

Yep. Did my nursing in Kamloops and in Vancouver. A friend just graduated last year and another will next year. The number of applicants greatly exceeds the number of spaces. One of them did her first two years in Calgary because she couldn't get into a BC program.

I'm not saying that all private companies are all efficient all the time. I'm saying that gov'ts are rarely as efficient as most private companies and it's simply because gov't people think the supply of money is endless and have no responsibility for accounting for the money.

Trust me, those of us working in health care were never under the impression that money was limitless. The budget constraints are always there, as the manager will always remind you. That's the way of it in Canada and the US, government and private.

Maybe it's rare there, but it sure ain't rare here.

You mean there are scores of rural British Columbians going to India or the US or Switzerland to avoid wait times? I would love to hear from them.

I don't know where you got the idea that healthcare in the US is like healthcare here. The last time I needed surgery for anything it was planned out. There was 3 days between the time my doc decided I should have it and the day of the operation, but that was before we acquired these idiotic health authorities. Now, the issue would probably take weeks before I got the needed surgery. So much for gov't efficiency here.
According to my insurance, the people covered under the plan are covered for up to 30 days and a maximum of $5,000,000CA. Premiums are a bit high, but are tax deductable and the plan also covers regular holidays and work related travel..

I've lived in and worked in both systems. I get the annoyance of waits. My only point is that people wait here too. You don't show up at your GP's today and book your surgery for tomorrow. I had surgery here. I was very happy with the care I received and the price wasn't too bad, but the wait was fairly long (over 2 months from GP to surgery). It sounds like you think the system in BC was efficient before and that was still a government run system, so I don't see why government vs private is the issue.

I would wonder if your insurance is meant to cover you while travelling as opposed to you planning an operation out of the country? I had that type of travel insurance, but it wasn't like I could use it to book bypass surgery in Washington state.

I never suggested that BC should adopt the US style private system. I said I think BC should adopt the Swiss 3 level system (I provided a couple links and actually the WorldHealthOrganisation seem to think highly of the Swiss system) or something based on it because it's pretty obvious what we have isn't working. If there was no need for people to go to private places for healthcare, there wouldn't be any here; but they seem to have started appearing and seem to be doing business.

I'd happily see us learn from other countries. My only concern would be, how do we ensure that we wind up with something like the Swiss system and not the British or American ones? Do we have the resources to manage that kind of system? Do we have the population? Do we have the geographical conviniences they do? Is our population as good at prevention as the Swiss? Do we have the personnel? How would our laws and trade agreements affect our efforts? There could be a lot of reasons why it works for them and it may or may not work for us.

 

[L Gilbert]

They do cause that sort of waste. Administrative costs are much more expensive here because of the different insurance companies, different plans, etc. It adds an entirely new level of beaurocracy to what already existed.

Yeah, like these Health Authorities that the gov't decided to add instead of each area having a hospital board.

Yep. Did my nursing in Kamloops and in Vancouver. A friend just graduated last year and another will next year. The number of applicants greatly exceeds the number of spaces. One of them did her first two years in Calgary because she couldn't get into a BC program.

Ah, so the reason behind the closed beds must be that the Health Authorities don't want posistions filled in the smaller communities. Maybe the whole plan is to get people out of the rural areas and moving into cities where the remaining hospitals are. Extremely intelligent plan.

Trust me, those of us working in health care were never under the impression that money was limitless. The budget constraints are always there, as the manager will always remind you. That's the way of it in Canada and the US, government and private.

Yeah. I didn't mean the folks that actually do work relevant to patients, I meant the silly buggers in the Health Authorities who conceive of these "cost-saving" schemes. As it sits these people do not mind wasting public money on making half-productive hospitals pretty with new paint before they replace the old leaky roof with a new one. Also, if these idiots stay within the budget while hatching these inane schemes, they get bonuses to add to their already fat salaries.

You mean there are scores of rural British Columbians going to India or the US or Switzerland to avoid wait times? I would love to hear from them.

I said "scores"?
But, anyway:

http://www.ccac-accc.ca/news.php?id=53

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/healthcare/medicaltourism.html
http://www.readersdigest.ca/mag/2003/04/health.html

I've lived in and worked in both systems. I get the annoyance of waits. My only point is that people wait here too. You don't show up at your GP's today and book your surgery for tomorrow. I had surgery here. I was very happy with the care I received and the price wasn't too bad, but the wait was fairly long (over 2 months from GP to surgery). It sounds like you think the system in BC was efficient before and that was still a government run system, so I don't see why government vs private is the issue.

It's easy. The gov'ts have allowed the system to deteriorate and what little they have changed in the system has either not been enough, or has not worked.

I would wonder if your insurance is meant to cover you while travelling as opposed to you planning an operation out of the country? I had that type of travel insurance, but it wasn't like I could use it to book bypass surgery in Washington state.

I guess you missed part of what I said:

According to my insurance, the people covered under the plan are covered for up to 30 days and a maximum of $5,000,000CA. Premiums are a bit high, but are tax deductable and the plan also covers regular holidays and work related travel.

Notice the part in red?

I'd happily see us learn from other countries. My only concern would be, how do we ensure that we wind up with something like the Swiss system and not the British or American ones? Do we have the resources to manage that kind of system? Do we have the population? Do we have the geographical conviniences they do? Is our population as good at prevention as the Swiss? Do we have the personnel? How would our laws and trade agreements affect our efforts? There could be a lot of reasons why it works for them and it may or may not work for us.

So? That is reason to do research into other plans; not reason to shrug, fling ones arms up in the air, and stick to the status quo. As the axiom goes: nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[Tomtom]

Just as long as the people who support Private Healthcare aren't labouring under the delusion that it will "save them money", because it won't. The only thing you're buying is a jump in the queue.

 

[L Gilbert]

Save money in which sense?

 

[tracy]

Ah, so the reason behind the closed beds must be that the Health Authorities don't want posistions filled in the smaller communities. Maybe the whole plan is to get people out of the rural areas and moving into cities where the remaining hospitals are. Extremely intelligent plan..

I don't know about that, but I do know that those rural hospitals are pretty damn picky when it comes to hiring new staff. They tend to want experienced nurses only. Experienced nurses can get better jobs elsewhere. Why in God's name would I move to Cranbrook for a part time job without benefits when I have specialty training that can get me a full time, well paying job elsewhere? You should look on healthmatchbc.org . Look at the qualifications some of those rural hospiptals expect. It's no wonder they have a shortage of staff.

I said "scores"?
But, anyway:

http://www.ccac-accc.ca/news.php?id=53

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/healthcare/medicaltourism.html
..

Well, I suppose you didn't say scores, but you disagreed with me when I said it was rare. It is rare. Most medical tourism is for elective plastic surgery, and even that's a small number.

I guess you missed part of what I said: Notice the part in red?[/color].

I did notice that part. That doesn't sound like you could plan an operation out of the country and they'd pay for it. It sounds like you would have it paid for if you happened to need it while you were outside of the country.

So? That is reason to do research into other plans; not reason to shrug, fling ones arms up in the air, and stick to the status quo. As the axiom goes: nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Did I say we should do that? I agree completely into looking to make improvements and learning from others. Again,the Romanow report has been out for a while now. We know a lot of things we could do to improve the system. We just have to have the political will to do it, and that's not likely to happen with this government. I really think they want the system to fail.

 

[L Gilbert]

I did notice that part. That doesn't sound like you could plan an operation out of the country and they'd pay for it. It sounds like you would have it paid for if you happened to need it while you were outside of the country.

So, you think we went looking around specifically for a plan that would pay for out-of-country surgery and we bought into this one on the sayso of a friend in the insurance business that it would only cover travel insurance and not what we wanted? I guess you don't think very much of mine or my wife's intelligence.

Did I say we should do that? I agree completely into looking to make improvements and learning from others. Again,the Romanow report has been out for a while now. We know a lot of things we could do to improve the system. We just have to have the political will to do it, and that's not likely to happen with this government. I really think they want the system to fail.

Sounds about right.
Either way, I kinda like the idea of having a choice rather than the socialist idea of gov't supplying the service or nothing. I can't stand ICBC either. Actually I intensely dislike monopolies of pretty much any sort whether private or public.

 

[tracy]

So, you think we went looking around specifically for a plan that would pay for out-of-country surgery and we bought into this one on the sayso of a friend in the insurance business that it would only cover travel insurance and not what we wanted? I guess you don't think very much of mine or my wife's intelligence.
.

No, I'd just like some specifics. If it's available, then I don't see why people are complaining that they can't buy healthcare. You are.

 

[L Gilbert]

Well, I won't give you specifics of our policy, but I will tell you that anything is insurable. There's Lloyd's of London ( http://www.lloyds.com/ ), a German outfit ( http://www.securando.de ), a Mexican outfit ( http://www.mexicoinsurance.com/ ), etc. As far as I know one can write their own policy.