Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and IRA

[Karlin]

http://www.rabble.ca/columnists_full.shtml?x=45551

Harper's famously forgotten "Firewall Letter" would surely put voters off voting Conservative in this election if it were known, if the mass media would tell the whole story for once.

He had the idea to put up a firewall around Alberta and its energy resources , using it against the social advances desired by Canadians.

More at the top link...

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"GAYS being equally persecuted by IRAN's rabid fundamentalists, and by Harper-and-the-USA's Christian fundies" -

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2458/

Although they are not talking together, not in on the persecution of gays in one plan together, nonetheless these three groups show an alarming similiarity in this issue.

What does it tell us about " IRANIAN USA and Harper Fundamentalists" that they all hate and persecute gays? It tells us they are all on a similiar wavelength, similiar misconceptions and fantasies.

It shows us that fundamentalism is dangerous, it is one of the forces in humanity that legistlates hate, along with Fascists, Dictators, Corporatism, etc.

Harper's sudden change from having a hidden agenda to being a moderate is not explored in the mass media, but rather it is buried.

It seems the corporate-controlled mass media that serves the Elites is content to have either Liberals or Conservatives in power. THE USA has either Democrats or Republicans "same thing" , just as in Canada where we pretend to have "the two sides of the political spectrum" squaring off, but really it is a farce.

The media seems to have played its hand in promoting "anyone but the NDP".

Karlin

 

[Jay]

RE: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

And if you believe any of that, I have an apartment for sale in New York...contact me.

 

[Toro]

RE: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

Look at it this way HIRMLWPs, maybe Prime Minister Harper will build a firewall around Canada.

 

[MMMike]

Re: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

Are you out of your mind???? How can you compare torture and murder of gays in Iran with the nuanced political debate happening in Canada????? Do you even understand Harper's stand on the issue???? He is hardly advocating death and destruction to homosexuals; he simply wants to preserve the traditional definition of marriage. He even supports extending all the rights and priveleges of "marriage" to same sex unions. It is all about a word.

 

[Toro]

RE: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

Hey, did you know they has social programs in Stalinist Russia? Thus, if we have social programs, millions of people are going to die in Gulags.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

MMMike: it takes but a word (a label) to make two groups unequal.

Toro: Harper is a free market politician. the last thing he would do is build firewalls around canada.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

It is all about a word.

Hardly...it's about his Christiano-fascist aversion to homosexuality...but he knows that he wouldn't remain in public office very long if he even hinted that he hates homosexuals because his god told him to...

I'd wager that 90% of the people claiming they wish to preserve the traditional definition of marriage are really just too afraid and ashamed to publicly admit that they are homophobic bigots...

Yet you never see any of them out offering their support during gay pride parades or other gay rights functions...

Funny that...

 

[jimmoyer]

RE: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

Maybe it is just about a word.

In deference to the traditionalists, I'd at least call for
civil unions and not call it marriage.

It's one of the last boundaries of wrongful discrimination
and this debate is a good one, educational for all.

Although psychologically I'll bet you the guys will
have more trouble on the commitment issue.

LOL !!

 

[FiveParadox]

In Relation to Same-sex Marriage

:arrow: In Relation to Same-sex Marriage

Firstly, I apologize if on this subject I seem to be biased, but know that I am a gay teen — so, if I see the issue under a slightly different light, forgive me.

Now, I am in favour of same-sex marriage; the House of Commons had voted in favour of the Civil Marriage Act, and I stand by that decision (in terms of the "free vote" issue, that is going to be addressed further down in the post). The assertion that the Supreme Court of Canada had ruled that the traditional definition of marriage was constitutional is not entirely true; the Court, if you recall, refused to answer the question in the reference to the Court.

:arrow: My Suggestion

Perhaps the Government of Canada, in order to preserve the institution of marriage as requested by a majority of religious institutions, should amend any piece of legislation referring to "marriage," and instead refer to all such recognized relationships as being "civil unions."

If one wishes to become "married" in the eyes of God, then perhaps one can go to a Church or one's religious institution for the ceremony; however, where one wants that relationship to be recognized by the Government, then one should apply for a civil union with a Justice of the Peace — one standard, for both heterosexual and homosexual couples.

Marriage can remain entirely the authority of religious institutions with this proposal.

:!: Edit I have to run out for a bit! I'll address the issue of a free vote when I get home later tonight.

 

[yballa09]

Re: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

Sounds fair, fiveparadox. I mean, if the traditionalists are simply just wanting to defend the definition of marriage, then if the gov't kept marriage to what it has always been, and introduce civil unions with all the same benefits that should more than enough to make them happy. If not, then the gov't has called their bluff.

 

[Breakthrough2006]

Re: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

If a "word" is such a big deal, then why do we differentiate between a "man" and a "woman".

To be equal, we should all be called humans.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

yes, why differentiate where not necessary?

why does one group think they should have some form of exclusivity? Oh yes, i remember now: superstition and ignorance. We would not want to challenge those now, would we?

 

[nomore]

Re: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

If a "word" is such a big deal, then why do we differentiate between a "man" and a "woman".

To be equal, we should all be called humans.

That's exactly right. There is no discrimination in naming something differently if the different groups have all the same rights.
We have names for different races, genders, sexual preferences etc. So why would it be any different for different types of unions.

Personally, this is a non issue for myself anyway, the decision has been made on the rights of homosexuals, it's done, the consevatives will not change it, move on people! I'm not quite sure why the media and liberals continue to sensationalize this. honestly why do people care what it is called. I'm a white male, and I don't mind being called one, this issue is as pointless as me wanting to be called Asian, and claiming a breach of my rights if I am not leagally called that by the government. There are so many more important issues in this country that we need to take care of first, rather than dealing with the definition of a word. Leave that to the people who publish dictionarys.

 

[jimmoyer]

RE: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

There are so many more important issues in this country that we need to take care of first,...
-------------------nomore--------------------------

Let me disagree.

Gay rights, abortion, civil unions and marriage,
sexual discrimination, gun control and in the states,
capital punishment, separation of church and state,
religion, stem cell research---- are all important issues.

You often hear that are other more important issues
and that the above list often sucks the oxygen
away from other problems that need our attention.

True, it often does do that.

But discussion of all of these things are educational
for society although it might not appear that way.

People need to air their understandings of these
matters and they need to meet the challenges
towards their opinions.

Tiresome yes for those of us who have figured
some things out, but nevertheless this is the stuff
of our cultural society.

 

[cyberclark]

RE: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

Gay marriage is a convenient button for all the politics to play pretty much at randem. Beside the contest between the conventional and nons, there is a large industry at play here regarding who is going to cover spousal damages and spousal health care and spousal property. Big issue and concern from them.

It unfortunately gets wrapped in with what's acceptable between two people and is exploited by one venue or another.

I agree it is a non issue but a hot botton to play for extremists AKA fundalmentalists.

 

[jimmoyer]

RE: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

Well it is a big issue then isn't it ?

As far as I'm concerned every issue on the planet
has the users and manipulators spin it to their benefit
while those who feel the impact, these issues matter greatly.

 

[nomore]

Re: RE: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons,

There are so many more important issues in this country that we need to take care of first,...
-------------------nomore--------------------------

Let me disagree.

Gay rights, abortion, civil unions and marriage,
sexual discrimination, gun control and in the states,
capital punishment, separation of church and state,
religion, stem cell research---- are all important issues.

You often hear that are other more important issues
and that the above list often sucks the oxygen
away from other problems that need our attention.

True, it often does do that.

But discussion of all of these things are educational
for society although it might not appear that way.

People need to air their understandings of these
matters and they need to meet the challenges
towards their opinions.

Tiresome yes for those of us who have figured
some things out, but nevertheless this is the stuff
of our cultural society.

You make good points, but i would also have to disagree to an extent. You are right, that some of these issues need to be discussed, however, when the more important issues like, unemployment, education, crime, standard of living, healthcare, and life or death type issues, etc. take a back seat to issues like the definition of marrige, I think it is useless.

Canadians typically have short attention spans, so when elections, and the media, harp on issues like this, and make this their prime focus, it really dosen't help people make informed decisions of issues of greater importance that truly affect all canadians, rather than defining a word, IMO, it has gotten enough air time, we all know where people stand, lets move on.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

good point nomore,

but we have to look at who is really bringing the SSM issue up again. Most are happy to leave it as resolved, but a few consider this so important as to raise it again and again. Shall we call them the vocal minority? True that the populace has a short attention span, and it seems to keep getting shorter as people rely more and more on "sound bites" in making evaluations. Politics is more than ever a game of appearance rather than substance (just look at the contenders for PM).

So the solution is perhaps to just be more vocal on "your issue" than the anti-SSMers are on SSM.

 

[nomore]

Re: RE: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons,

Very true caracal kid. I guess I just get frustrated when this issue over-shadows others that I personally feel are more important.

 

[MMMike]

Re: Harper's "Firewall Letter" ; USA Neo-Cons, and

It is all about a word.

Hardly...it's about his Christiano-fascist aversion to homosexuality...but he knows that he wouldn't remain in public office very long if he even hinted that he hates homosexuals because his god told him to...

I'd wager that 90% of the people claiming they wish to preserve the traditional definition of marriage are really just too afraid and ashamed to publicly admit that they are homophobic bigots...

Yet you never see any of them out offering their support during gay pride parades or other gay rights functions...

Funny that...

What is that 90% figure based on, Vanni - your own biased opinion? Of course there are homophobes hiding behind this "traditional definition", but there are also many who believe same sex couples can enjoy ALL of the rights and priviledges of marriage, can even have EXACTLY the same treatment under the law without changing the definition of a word with a lot of meaning to people.