Harper government weaker than Liberals
- Thread starter Jersay
- Start date
Re: RE: Harper government weaker than Liberals
Yes, and I would be one of them.
FiveParadox said:
Yes, and I would be one of them.
Part of the problem is the number of political parties in Italy. Here is a list of most of them.
Major
The five political parties that have had more than 4% at the last 2001 elections
* Forza Italia 29,43%
* Democrats of the Left (Democratici di Sinistra) 16,57%
* Daisy-Democracy is Freedom (Margherita-Democrazia è libertà) 14,52%
* National Alliance (Alleanza Nazionale) 12,02%
* Communist Refoundation Party (Partito della Rifondazione Comunista) 5,03%
[edit]
Minor
Less than 4% at the 2001 elections:
* Northern League (Lega Nord)
* European Republican Movement (Movimento Repubblicani Europei)
* Federation of the Greens (Federazione dei Verdi)
* Federation of Italian Liberals (Federazione dei Liberali)
* Fiamma Tricolore
* Italian Democratic Socialists (Socialisti Democratici Italiani)
* Italian Democratic Socialist Party (Partito Socialista Democratico Italiano)
* Italian Liberal Party (Partito Liberale Italiano)
* Italian Radicals (Radicali Italiani)
* List Bonino (Lista Bonino)
* Italian Republican Party (Partito Repubblicano Italiano)
* Italy of Values-List Di Pietro (Italia dei Valori - Lista Di Pietro)
* New Force (Forza Nuova)
* National Social Front (Fronte Sociale Nazionale)
* Fascism and Freedom Movement (Movimento Fascismo e Libertà)
* Party of Italian Communists (Partito dei Comunisti Italiani)
* Pensioners' Party (Partito dei Pensionati)
* Popular Alliance-UDEUR (Alleanza Popolare-UDEUR)
* Sardian Action Party (Partito Sardo d'Azione)
* Sardinia Nation (Sardigna Natzione)
* Social Action (Azione Sociale)
* Socialist Party New PSI (Partito Socialista Nuovo PSI)
* South Tyrolese People's Party (Südtiroler Volkspartei)
* Union for South Tyrol (Union für Südtirol)
* Democrats Centre Union (Unione Democratici di Centro), 35 deputies at 2001 elections, also named Union of Christian and Centre Democrats (Unione dei Democratici Cristiani e Democratici di Centro)
* Valdotanian Union (Union Valdotaine)
* Christian Democracy for the Authonomies (Democrazia Cristiana per le Autonomie)
* Liberal Reformers (Riformatori Liberali)
* Movement for Autonomy (Movimento per l'Autonomia)
* The Socialists (I Socialisti)
* Alpine Star (Stella Alpina)
uke:Well there are 15 political parties in Canada.
A new system will allow other small parties to get into parliment.
A new system will allow other small parties to get into parliment.
The Liberals are bluffing they will not vote against the Throne Speech, they might abstain but they wont vote against it. Secondly, I think it is generally accepted that while Harper doesn't have outright power like he would command in a majority government he does have the confidence and good will of a significant amount of the population who believe he should be given a chance to govern. Finally, I do not think the responsibility is all on Harper to negotiate with the other parties, the other parties have to take responsibility themselves and determine if it is in the best intersts of the country to hod another election. personally I think they would be quite right to do so if an important issue came up (Free Trade for example). However, childcare is a different matter. All parties agree that more money is needed in order to have a better childcare system for working parents, they just disagree on how to do it. The Tories are putting forward more money. Since there will be an election in 18 months to 2 years anyhow it seems pointless to me to call an election over this issue especially becasue a new government would be able to improve the system in short order if it wanted.
By the way I think Not, the Speech from the Throne is akin to the President's State of the Union Address, it opens the new parliamentary session.
By the way I think Not, the Speech from the Throne is akin to the President's State of the Union Address, it opens the new parliamentary session.
When 60%+ of the country voting against Harper's ideas without fine tuning I expect the opposition parties to make him change his Throne Speech through amendments or he should fall because I don't want his bloody crapy ideals without realistic chances.
Besides if people truly, wanted him as PM they would have given him a majority.
Besides if people truly, wanted him as PM they would have given him a majority.
I agree, Jersay.
The Right Honourable Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P., should be prepared to govern... with the consent of the Houses of Commons, our representatives, or to not govern. In my opinion, those are his options.
The Right Honourable Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P., should be prepared to govern... with the consent of the Houses of Commons, our representatives, or to not govern. In my opinion, those are his options.
Jersay said:
I bet you weren't thinking that when Martin's minority government was running the show. I mean seriously, you're not even giving the guy a shot to govern.
Lotuslander said:
Yes, I realized that after FiveParadox explained, thanks for the info.
#juan said:
:lol: You're right.
Jersay wrote:
I disagree. I think it was clear by the results that a majority of people were tired of the status quo Liberal government and wanted something new. Remeber elections are usually plebicites on the government according to the old adage; "Oppositions' don't win elecctions, Governments' lose them." and nearly 70% of the country voted against Paul Martin's government. The opposition parties do not have a mandate to govern, it is as simple as that. If they want to force the Tories to amend the Throne Speech best of luck to them but, they'll have to accept the consequences if the Government falls. Childcare was a main Tory plank it is unlikely that Harper will simply disregard it now ( never say never of course). I think Harper would be quite right to look upon changes to this centrepiece of his election platform as a confidence measure. In our system in most instances the party with the most seats (and usually a plurality of popular vote as well) in the Commons has a mandate to form government. Harper will have to govern with the consent of the House, that is the way responsible government works, if the Throne Speech or any money bills don't pass the government falls, plain and simple. I think it is disingenious to say that if the Canadians wanted a Harper government they would have given him a majority, maybe they wanted a Harper government with strings attached which is essence is what they have now. In any case you can't please everybody all the time and for all those who don't want Harper's"bloody crappy ideals" there are just as many who didn't want Trudeau's "bloody crappy idealism" or Martin's "bloody uninspiring leadership". At least a minority government gives us politicos some entertainment value once the Commons resumes sitting.
I think we need to be more non-partisan sometimes put our partisan biases aside and give people a chance then judge them on their accomplishments and failures. I lived in Nova Scotia and was abhored when the Tories came to power. By the time I left if an election were held I would have voted Tory because Hamm ran a scandal free honest government which was in tune with most bluenosers. More importantly I felt that he and his cabinet really did have the best interests' of the province at heart even if sometimes his decisions seemed harsh.
I disagree. I think it was clear by the results that a majority of people were tired of the status quo Liberal government and wanted something new. Remeber elections are usually plebicites on the government according to the old adage; "Oppositions' don't win elecctions, Governments' lose them." and nearly 70% of the country voted against Paul Martin's government. The opposition parties do not have a mandate to govern, it is as simple as that. If they want to force the Tories to amend the Throne Speech best of luck to them but, they'll have to accept the consequences if the Government falls. Childcare was a main Tory plank it is unlikely that Harper will simply disregard it now ( never say never of course). I think Harper would be quite right to look upon changes to this centrepiece of his election platform as a confidence measure. In our system in most instances the party with the most seats (and usually a plurality of popular vote as well) in the Commons has a mandate to form government. Harper will have to govern with the consent of the House, that is the way responsible government works, if the Throne Speech or any money bills don't pass the government falls, plain and simple. I think it is disingenious to say that if the Canadians wanted a Harper government they would have given him a majority, maybe they wanted a Harper government with strings attached which is essence is what they have now. In any case you can't please everybody all the time and for all those who don't want Harper's"bloody crappy ideals" there are just as many who didn't want Trudeau's "bloody crappy idealism" or Martin's "bloody uninspiring leadership". At least a minority government gives us politicos some entertainment value once the Commons resumes sitting.
I think we need to be more non-partisan sometimes put our partisan biases aside and give people a chance then judge them on their accomplishments and failures. I lived in Nova Scotia and was abhored when the Tories came to power. By the time I left if an election were held I would have voted Tory because Hamm ran a scandal free honest government which was in tune with most bluenosers. More importantly I felt that he and his cabinet really did have the best interests' of the province at heart even if sometimes his decisions seemed harsh.
I think not, the Right Honourable Paul Martin, P.C., M.P., was forced to change his government's Speech from the Throne; his government was forced to add budget provisions on behalf of the New Democratic Party of Canada, his party was forced to guarantee the passage of the Civil Marriage Act to garner the support of the Bloc Québécois and, ultimately, the previous Government of Canada was defeated due to a failure to co-operate adequately with the opposition.I think not said:
If the Right Honourable Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P., now the Prime Minister of Canada, thinks that he can ignore the rules of governing with a minority, then he is going to succumb to the same fate as had the previous prime minister — defeat due to non-co-operation.
My personal opinion on this is that Mr. Stephen Harper is in a great position to govern as if he has a majority because the Liberals have no leader and are not ready for an election, the N.D.P are looking at this as a way to get rid of the liberals and gain more seats in the next election so they continue to attack them and the Bloc do not want an election right now because in less than two years they go the polls in a provincial election. So Mr. Harper can do whatever he wants. None of the parties right now are thinking about Canada they are only thinking about how to rebuild or gain seats or in the case of the Conservatives a majority in the next election. Meanwhile the canadian people get screwed.