Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India...&a

[Karlin]

"'Wait".
Thats the conservative answer to global warming.
Funny how close that is to the AMERICAN attitude towards global warming. Harper and Bush are both deniers of the scope of the problem, and of the urgency of action needed to combat global warming.

Yesterday on TV, Candidate Stephen Harper re-iterated an old conservative dodge on global warming, saying something to the effect of :
"We can't just go ahead and reduce emissions, it would give China and India a competitive advantage. Until they sign on to emissions reductions, Canada should save itself the troubles too. "

{If you get the actual quote, you will see that the above is the essense of what he said.]

K - Well great, we will just sit here enduring climate change and severe weather while keeping ahead of some emerging third-world economies.
CHRIST don't they see our economy will be SHOT to HELL with climate change?
The costs of 'storm damages' alone will far exceed ALL the program spending we do now from federal coffers. Its not reasonable to measure climate change against our economy, its a non-starter.

Global Warming's potential damages and other concerns exceed and overwhelm any economic matters. Money won't bring back extinct species, for instance. Or eroding coastlines... Or Englands warm climate from the gulf stream...

Businesses will be ruined, why can't Harper see that?
" Blinded by the Bush, wrapped up in the dark, never going see the light" -[to the tune of...BBTL]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And, to be fair, P.Martin 's Liberal's record of GG reductions is an increase of 24% since yr. 2000.


.....which leaves us one choice of a major party, the one never tried, the one without such firm ties to corporate america and all its FOSSIL FOOLS, the NDP. J Layton has a plan...

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Harper: "Global Warmi

Layton does have a plan, and that plan is based on science. It also recognises that technology drives economies, so we will benfit, not suffer.

The thing is that Harper is afraid he will suffer...his base is in Alberta. Bush is so heavily invested in the oil industry that they dictate which wars he starts. Martin makes a shitload of cash hauling coal around.

They are all dependent on personal technology for their personal benefit, so they see clean technologies as a personal economic threat.

 

[Breakthrough2006]

Re: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

The US's record on green house emissions is better than ours over the past 15 years. Canadian politicians like to talk a big game but fall very short when it comes to actually "doing" something.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

Yesterday on TV, Candidate Stephen Harper re-iterated an old conservative dodge on global warming, saying something to the effect of :
"We can't just go ahead and reduce emissions, it would give China and India a competitive advantage. Until they sign on to emissions reductions, Canada should save itself the troubles too. "

Does this "attitude" make any rational sense .....in today's world where the evidence of global warming is all around us.??

How does he explain this "competative" advantage and of what??

......strange..

(scary........as he isn't making any more sense than......well, "you know who" to the S. of us. )

 

[#juan]

Re: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

Stephen Harper dangerous???

http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2004-06-03/news_insight.php

Hell Yes!

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

Perhaps Harper should go spend the next 10 years living in Resolute Bay. He then may become more aware of what's going on, and who knows may come up with some bright idea* to help curb the problem.



*It's a long shot and I'm not guaranteeing anything.

 

[Jay]

RE: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

Ya, if you believe all that means what the site says it means.

 

[Breakthrough2006]

Re: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

Paul Martin dangerous????

http://www.yayacanada.com/dobbin.html

Scary.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Harper: "Global Warmi

So I guess the NDP can count your vote then, Breakthrough?

Does this "attitude" make any rational sense .....in today's world where the evidence of global warming is all around us.??

How does he explain this "competative" advantage and of what??

There is actually a competitive disadvantage, especially when combined with Harper's (and Martin's) version of free trade. Unless we institute fair trade policies, there is no realistic chance that we can compete with third world labour and environmental regulations.

Harper and those who want to follow his ill thought out policies of greed and stupidity are joining in a race to the bottom where everybody loses.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

There is actually a competitive disadvantage

that would be my take on it.......

 

[pastafarian]

RE: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

Harper is dead right on this.

Where are the effects of global warming being felt, mostly? In the third world and parts of the first world where third world conditions exist. If our increased depletion of fossil fuels doesn't insure our competitive advantage, then the resulting cold snaps, hurricanes, monsoons and droughts sure will!

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and In

Harper is dead right on this.

Where are the effects of global warming being felt, mostly? In the third world and parts of the first world where third world conditions exist. If our increased depletion of fossil fuels doesn't insure our competitive advantage, then the resulting cold snaps, hurricanes, monsoons and droughts sure will!

the effects are being felt on the west coast..(CA) Whistler is getting less and less snow each year. The rain factor has changed dramatically over the past 2-3 yrs.....

so unless BC is now a third world nation.....??

 

[pastafarian]

Re: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

so unless BC is now a third world nation.....??

Well, funny you should mention such a thing to a Toronto native... I should say that I'm in the minority. I think not.

 

[jimmoyer]

RE: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

The Kyoto Treaty has only one good thing going: it's a nice worthy idea.

Beyond that, it ignores the biggest threat of pollution out of China and other developing nations, and the poisoned environment of all the old communist countries.

Remember when the Chinese exploded The Bomb above ground in the 80s and the headlines spoke of the cloud drifting along the jet stream to North America and maybe affecting the milk in cows?

Or Chernobyl killing Santa's Reindeer in Lapland ?

I think the West should continue the technology of emissions control because it might be a new product to sell and the expense of it could encourage new technologies, but the environment will not be helped if we expect others to make the investment while still others do not.

 

[Karlin]

Re: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

The USA has, apparently, been doing better than Canada in reducing its gg emissions. They are still the largest, percapita and total.

Its not to the credit of Bush tho' - the Big City Mayors have done most of it. They are vocal opponents of the Bush approach/denials, attitude.

"US mayors climate protection agreement"
http://www.ci.seattle.wa.us/mayor/climate/default.htm

"2005 ADOPTED RESOLUTIONS [of US mayors]:
http://tinyurl.com/caw8f
Bypassing Bush, Americans take local road to Kyoto":
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N06341882.htm

MONTREAL, Dec 6 (Reuters) - While U.S. President George W. Bush refuses to accept the Kyoto Protocol to cut greenhouse gas emissions, at least 40 million Americans will find themselves bound to the international treaty to curb global warming.

Since the protocol took effect last February, Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels has convinced 192 cities to agree to cut emissions 7 percent from 1990 levels by 2012 -- the recommended target for the United States, which emits 25 percent of the world's heat-trapping gases.

The cities join an increasing number of states, including California and New York, and leading corporations choosing to follow the Kyoto lead even while their country doesn't.

Kyoto was only ever meant to be a start. 1990 levels are unnaceptable, we can and will do better. Bush know this means fossil fuels use will have to be reduced, not just emissions controls. he can't go there and hold on to his power/financial base.

Funny thing, those corporations and BushCo types are also going to feel the effects of global warming. Maybe they have so much at stake [in fossil fuels] that they just can't see the reality of it. Or maybe they WANT it to happen and only the rich-enough will survive and they will have the world to themselves?

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

Funny thing, those corporations and BushCo types are also going to feel the effects of global warming. Maybe they have so much at stake [in fossil fuels] that they just can't see the reality of it. Or maybe they WANT it to happen and only the rich-enough will survive and they will have the world to themselves?

Bush and his supporters also have the anti-science, faith-based thing to deal with. I've seen Robertson, Falwell, and Swaggert all, at various times, deny global warming on the basis that god wouldn't let it happen.

We are dealing with people who have an ideological hatred of science, no understanding of how science works, and no compunction to listen to scientists.

Harper and his party are largely of the same ilk. That makes their interests more vested than Martin, who is terrible for the environment, and it makes them unfit to lead a nation in the modern world.

 

[Karlin]

Re: Where is the NDP rage on Global Warming?

Its an insane bunch of people who bend 'gods will' to their own needs.

They have a total disconnect from the idea that "god created an intelligent and responsible species in humans, and thats why we need to address global warming".

We were not created to ruin his previous works.... [for those who must go that route of religion].


Where is the NDP on Global Warming?

They could really be making hay with this issue in the election campaign. Neither Liberals nor the CPP are going to run with it... Libs because they have allready had a chance to do something and our national rate of emissions only rise higher, and the CPP has to toe the line for their corporate backers and spew forth those stall tactics that allow fossil fuel use to continue unhindered.

Global Warming problems could be highlighted, the economic opportunites of alternative energy should be highlighted. I don't believe in putting FEAR into people, the Elites and their obedient media have overdone that allready, but its okay to show what lies ahead if we continue on this path. Nobody is doing that, not even the Greens.

The issue of "we are utterly dependant on nature's ways and tinkering with things we can't put right again is wrong and dangerous" could resonate with a lot of people - the silent majority who has 'faith in nature to provide for us', like a spiritual connection to nature.

"stepping on nature's ways is insulting to our own nature" just might start to turn some heads.

 

[DasFX]

Re: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

"'Wait" "We can't just go ahead and reduce emissions, it would give China and India a competitive advantage. Until they sign on to emissions reductions, Canada should save itself the troubles too. "

Should we wait? Yes and no.

Global Warming is a global issue so unless there is a global consensus especially from the major polluters, it makes no sense to press ahead full speed ahead with this. Sure we can take charge and lead by example to get the ball rolling, but to fully implement Kyoto would be a huge cost to the Canadian economy especially when our competitors wouldn't be doing the same.

There are simple things we Canadians can do to help with decreasing our emissions, which would be of no cost to the Canadian economy, and I agree we should push for those things and create a more environmentally sensitive culture.

However, if Canada goes ahead with the other stuff without the other nations, it would just harm Canada. I mean, the Earth would still get warmer; the pollution we would breathe, eat and drink would simply come from other countries.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

Global Warming is a global issue so unless there is a global consensus especially from the major polluters, it makes no sense to press ahead full speed ahead with this. Sure we can take charge and lead by example to get the ball rolling, but to fully implement Kyoto would be a huge cost to the Canadian economy especially when our competitors wouldn't be doing the same.

Meeting our Kyoto goals would be a help, not a hinderance, to the economy. We'd spend less on home heating, develop new technologies that could be sold to other countries (including China and India), have fewer have not provinces. By not moving ahead on Kyoto we are hurting our own economy.

 

[DasFX]

Re: Harper: "Global Warming? -wait for China and India.

Global Warming is a global issue so unless there is a global consensus especially from the major polluters, it makes no sense to press ahead full speed ahead with this. Sure we can take charge and lead by example to get the ball rolling, but to fully implement Kyoto would be a huge cost to the Canadian economy especially when our competitors wouldn't be doing the same.

Meeting our Kyoto goals would be a help, not a hinderance, to the economy. We'd spend less on home heating, develop new technologies that could be sold to other countries (including China and India), have fewer have not provinces. By not moving ahead on Kyoto we are hurting our own economy.

The positive impact remains to be seen, but say it is great for Canada, what really is accomplished if the rest of the major polluters don't adopt the same strategies?