Global Warming debate is over.

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Glider47b said:
If global warming is true why do we continue to have such cold winters. Its freezing this year in our Oz. Come Global warming please come.

Global Warming is either you warm up to a certain point. Or you enter into an extremely violent Ice Age quicker then expected. Just depends on what you get, or it could just be massive disasters that are not common. More forest fires, Hurricanes, El Nino, La Nina etc, etc.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
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Glider47b said:
If global warming is true why do we continue to have such cold winters. Its freezing this year in our Oz. Come Global warming please come.

You're only taking the title of Global Warming literally there. It is mentioned as such as the Average world temperatures are rising. There are many areas that won't seem warmer. The big problem is is that the warming in other areas is causing more random and unpredictable weather patterns. Winters are still going to be cold, but they may start earlier and end earlier, or start later and end earlier depending on where you are.

By the way did anyone see what the Temperature in Kugluktuk was last friday? It is supposed to range from +13 to +3 for this time of year. It's NOT supposed to be 27 degrees like on Friday. Unfortunately this has been becoming the norm for the last 8 years now
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
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Global warming certainly seems to be a real phenomenon. I like the anecdotal. And being 55 now, I actually have my own reference points for comparison. The main difference for me in Ontario is the shortened, milder winters. We seldom get a winter like we had in the sixties or seventies. January this year was one for the record books. And a boon to those seeking refuge from skyrocketing heating oil charges. Like most Canuck kids I was a hockey nut as a kid and interestingly kept records of our first time on local pond ice during the early sixties. Ice that could support our weight and the tumble of a match. All the dates in the weathered book I have here are November ones. When was the last November Canadian kids in southern Ontario safely played scrimmage on the local pond on Remembrance Day?
 

jerry

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Jan 17, 2006
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That's not an article on global warming.....it's an puff piece about political correctness

You just confirm my view of the global warming crowd, it's just impossible to argue with you people, as soon as somebody disagrees with you, he is automatically tagged a fascist, a neo-con, a puppet of big business or whatever insult you can think of.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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That article was simply an ignorant put-down

by a shallow-minded hack, of all the real scientists who have determined that global warming is a real problem that we should all be concerned about. That writer presented no scientific evidence of any kind to challenge global warming. I would say there is enough evidence for global warming to make the bravest among us more than a little worried. The recession of the polar ice caps, the rising ocean temperatures, the fact that every year for the last decade or so has been the warmest on record, are things we should all be looking at.
 

jerry

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Jan 17, 2006
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That article was simply an ignorant put-down

by a shallow-minded hack, of all the real scientists who have determined that global warming is a real problem that we should all be concerned about.

You global warming people are funny. To you a real scientist is somebody who believes in global warming, if he does'nt, he is necessarly a nut job. No dissensions allowed, just like the article said.
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
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jerry said:
That article was simply an ignorant put-down

by a shallow-minded hack, of all the real scientists who have determined that global warming is a real problem that we should all be concerned about.

You global warming people are funny. To you a real scientist is somebody who believes in global warming, if he does'nt, he is necessarly a nut job. No dissensions allowed, just like the article said.

This is from the article.

The only inconvenient truth about global warming, contends Colorado State University's Bill Gray, is that a genuine debate has never actually taken place. Hundreds of scientists, many of them prominent in the field, agree.

Gray is perhaps the world's foremost hurricane expert. His Tropical Storm Forecast sets the standard. Yet, his criticism of the global warming "hoax" makes him an outcast.

The world's foremost hurricane expert isn't a "real scientist"? :? :?

Seems like Jerry is right when he says that no dissension is allowed.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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When you consider that a sizable majority of all the climatologists, and meteorologists on this planet believe that global warming is a real problem, we can't ignore that problem because Bill Grey doesn't believe it.

When a majority of scienists working in the field tell us there is a problem and a hack writer says it's a hoax, I would tend to believe the scientists working in the field.

Those scientists would welcome an intelligent dissenting argument, and so would I. Where is it?
 

jerry

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Jan 17, 2006
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Those scientists would welcome an intelligent dissenting argument, and so would I. Where is it?

Yeah right, ''welcome an intelligent dissenting argument''. To the global warming crowd, an intelligent discussion is about insulting everybody that disagrees with them.
 

JonB2004

Council Member
Mar 10, 2006
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The global warming debate is not over. People still can't get their head around the fact that global warming is a very real issue. The weather the world has been experiencing over the past year is not just something that happen every 30 years or so. It is the fault of humans for producing too much greenhouse gas emissions.
 

proudpegger

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Jan 30, 2006
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jerry said:
Those scientists would welcome an intelligent dissenting argument, and so would I. Where is it?

Yeah right, ''welcome an intelligent dissenting argument''. To the global warming crowd, an intelligent discussion is about insulting everybody that disagrees with them.

You can't just "disagree" with science. That is the problem, you think that PR pieces constitute legitimate debate. They do not.

And that is basically the nature of the "debate" at the moment. A handful of so-called scientists who aren't actually engaging in any science but are rather criss-crossing the globe for speaking engagements at EXXON funded institutes and policy centers spouting whatever nonsense they think will stick to a laymans mind and seed some doubt. Anything to dely action on global warming, which is the only result their masters want.

They used to deny that global warming was happening. Once the science became overwhelming enough to make them look foolish in that attempt, they switched to denying humans are contibuting to it in any real way. At the same time they often claim it will be benificial to us. It's ludicrous nonsense, and yet it finds a home in the brains of partisans like yourself who whine and cry that others insult you when you want to "disagree" with the global warming science.

The debate is OVER.

It's happening and we're causing it.

Wrap your head around this simple fact and learn to live with it. Stop seeking comfort from people who are so obviously acting as snake-oil salesmen for big industry it hurts.
 

proudpegger

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Jan 30, 2006
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JonB2004 said:
The global warming debate is not over. People still can't get their head around the fact that global warming is a very real issue. The weather the world has been experiencing over the past year is not just something that happen every 30 years or so. It is the fault of humans for producing too much greenhouse gas emissions.

That is the point of the original post.

The debate is over in that YES it is happening and YES we are causing it.
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
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You don't have to be a scientist to know something is screwy with the climate. Just be over 50 and of reasonably sound mind. I live in southern Ontario and the contrast between weather patterns when I was a kid, a teenager and in my twenties to those of today is startling. If it ain't global warming it's one helluva freaky new cycle we're in.
 

jerry

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Jan 17, 2006
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A handful of so-called scientists who aren't actually engaging in any science but are rather criss-crossing the globe for speaking engagements at EXXON funded institutes and policy centers spouting whatever nonsense they think will stick to a laymans mind and seed some doubt. Anything to dely action on global warming, which is the only result their masters want.

I would argue that that global warming is being hyped up by a bunch of environmentalists who are trying to pass as scientists and are terrorizing the scientists who happen to disagree with them.

Myself i totally stop believing in global warming the day i heard some so called ''scientists'' saying the tsunami in southeast Asia might have been caused by global warming; it was caused by an earthquake for crissake. That day i understood that the whole global warming thing was just a massive fear and disinformation factory.
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
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Hockey Stick Hokum
July 14, 2006; Page A12

...

[A] report soon to be released by the House Energy and Commerce Committee by three independent statisticians underlines yet again just how shaky this "consensus" view is, and how recent its vintage.

The claim originates from a 1999 paper by paleoclimatologist Michael Mann. Prior to Mr. Mann's work, the accepted view, as embodied in the U.N.'s 1990 report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), was that the world had undergone a warming period in the Middle Ages, followed by a mid-millennium cold spell and a subsequent warming period -- the current one. That consensus, as shown in the first of the two IPCC-provided graphs nearby, held that the Medieval warm period was considerably warmer than the present day.



Mr. Mann's 1999 paper eliminated the Medieval warm period from the history books, with the result being the bottom graph you see here.

...

The trouble is that there's no reason to believe that Mr. Mann, or his "hockey stick" graph of global temperature changes, is right. Questions were raised about Mr. Mann's paper almost as soon as it was published. In 2003, two Canadians, Ross McKitrick and Steven McIntyre, published an article in a peer-reviewed journal showing that Mr. Mann's methodology could produce hockey sticks from even random, trendless data.

The report commissioned by the House Energy Committee, due to be released today, backs up and reinforces that conclusion. The three researchers -- Edward J. Wegman of George Mason University, David W. Scott of Rice University and Yasmin H. Said of Johns Hopkins University -- are not climatologists; they're statisticians. Their task was to look at Mr. Mann's methods from a statistical perspective and assess their validity. Their conclusion is that Mr. Mann's papers are plagued by basic statistical errors that call his conclusions into doubt. Further, Professor Wegman's report upholds the finding of Messrs. McIntyre and McKitrick that Mr. Mann's methodology is biased toward producing "hockey stick" shaped graphs.

...

In addition to debunking the hockey stick, Mr. Wegman goes a step further in his report, attempting to answer why Mr. Mann's mistakes were not exposed by his fellow climatologists. Instead, it fell to two outsiders, Messrs. McIntyre and McKitrick, to uncover the errors.

Mr. Wegman brings to bear a technique called social-network analysis to examine the community of climate researchers. His conclusion is that the coterie of most frequently published climatologists is so insular and close-knit that no effective independent review of the work of Mr. Mann is likely. "As analyzed in our social network," Mr. Wegman writes, "there is a tightly knit group of individuals who passionately believe in their thesis." He continues: "However, our perception is that this group has a self-reinforcing feedback mechanism and, moreover, the work has been sufficiently politicized that they can hardly reassess their public positions without losing credibility."

...

WSJ ($)
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Any climatologist will admit to greenhouse gasses and to their effects on climate. It seems unlikely we could increase the amount of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere like we have and not effect the temperature. Since we know the temperature is rising, and we know the concentration of greenhouse gasses is rising, it is not a stretch to connect the two. Anyone who doesn't is hiding their head in the sand.
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
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And here is another one



http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/07/_not_crying_wol.html

I tend to believe the global warming theory.

What I am arguing is that the debate is "over" and that there is no scientific argument against global warming because its not.

Why is this important?

...
Nearly three billion people subsist on less than $2.00 per day. How can we best allocate resources to improve the lives of the poor, their children, and their grandchildren?

This is not an idle exercise; it has substantial implications for billions. Two years ago, a group of the world’s most respected economists, including Nobel Laureate and FREE’s 2003 Summer Scholar Thomas Schelling, were posed with a question: Given significant but finite resources, what are the best investments for improving our world? They chose clean water, public health, primary education (especially of girls), and inexpensive dietary improvements.

Addressing global warming didn’t make the cut. Why not? It could consume all the funds while producing uncertain rewards in the far distant future. Instead, these funds could be invested in developing economies. By attracting foreign capital, poor nations could gain economic resiliency, the surest route to a better future.

The experiment with economists was recently replicated by John Bolton, U.S. Ambassador to the UN. Not one to shrink from controversy, he empanelled UN diplomats from seven emerging nations, including India and China, to prioritize the issues. After hearing from experts in the problem areas, they ranked global crises ranging from climate change to migration. The top four were again health care, water and sanitation, education, and child nutrition. Climate change was, of course, dead last. No honest policy analyst would be surprised by these rankings.

While most agree that climate change is occurring, many proposed “solutions” are monumentally expensive, uncertain, and distant. They are, in sum, the sorriest of investments. Providing vitamin A, on the other hand, costs less than $1 per person per year, saves lives, and prevents childhood blindness. Encouraging breast feeding cheaply and effectively promotes infant health. These nutritional initiatives do not, however, offer a stage for pretense and drama. No matter how skilled the movie director, it’s hard to make public health reform a sexy issue.

One could argue that polar bears are more important than Pakistanis. The bears are indeed threatened by the melting of Arctic ice floes. Should we then invest to retard global warming, even if that investment could instead save millions of Pakistanis from easily preventable disease?
...

http://www.free-eco.org/articleDisplay.php?id=513

EDIT - forgot the graph source
 

jerry

New Member
Jan 17, 2006
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Any climatologist will admit to greenhouse gasses and to their effects on climate. It seems unlikely we could increase the amount of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere like we have and not effect the temperature. Since we know the temperature is rising, and we know the concentration of greenhouse gasses is rising, it is not a stretch to connect the two. Anyone who doesn't is hiding their head in the sand.

Well any climatologist, here's a bunch of climatologist that do not seem to agree. Oh well, they are probably funded by Exxon or some other corporate pigs.

http://www.friendsofscience.org/