Gender re-assignment

[Kreskin]

Pregnancy is elective and one can hire their own for home birthing methods. Remember, they aren't being denied but expected to pay for it.

Call it what you want. I'm suggesting most people who make these decisions don't understand them, and it's expedient to cut from a minority group who doesn't have the clout to be the sqeaky political wheel.

 

[captain morgan]

Pregnancy is elective and one can hire their own for home birthing methods. Remember, they aren't being denied but expected to pay for it.

I think that you are mistaken here. Hospital deliveries are recognized and covered within the system. No one is denied that service. Alternative methods like mid-wives represent the 'elective' procedure where the patient would be expected to pay. (I understand that this is currently being reviewed).

That said, no one is denying a pregnant mother the opportunity to employ a mid-wife. They can easily access this service at their own discretion and cost.

Call it what you want. I'm suggesting most people who make these decisions don't understand them, and it's expedient to cut from a minority group who doesn't have the clout to be the sqeaky political wheel.

I can appreciate that those persons that make the decisions can not fully understand the individual needs of transgenders from personal experience, however, the same argument applies to these folks in the event that they haven't undergone or don't feel a personal need for liposuction or cosmetic surgery. There are literally thousands of potential surgical remedies capable via medical science. You can not expect to have a board that has personal experience in all of them.

 

[gerryh]

I think that you are mistaken here. Hospital deliveries are recognized and covered within the system. No one is denied that service. Alternative methods like mid-wives represent the 'elective' procedure where the patient would be expected to pay. (I understand that this is currently being reviewed).

That said, no one is denying a pregnant mother the opportunity to employ a mid-wife. They can easily access this service at their own discretion and cost.

I think you are missing Kreskins point when he brings up pregnancy....... GETTING pregnant is a choice...it is "elective"..... why not delist pregnancy check ups and births? Make those that CHOOSE to get pregnant and have a baby pay for that choice rather than the public purse?

 

[captain morgan]

Perhaps I missed the mark.. In the event that this is the case, i suppose that Kreskin's beef lies in the core issue that everything should be pay-per-service. No exceptions.

Regardless of the original intent. The reality that we are left with is that GSR is not considered a covered service any longer in Alberta... I'm a little curious though, would all those in favour of GSR surgery support the opportunity for the transgender population (that seek GSR) to relocate to their communities specifically to receive the 'free' surgery?

I wonder how much support you'd observe for that when the cost of a number of folks, possibly from more than one province begin to relocate to a jurisdiction where GSR is covered by 'the system'?

I'd wager that it would take one or two reports on the evening news before the 'system' was changed for the very same reasons that it is changing in AB.

 

[gerryh]

Perhaps I missed the mark.. In the event that this is the case, i suppose that Kreskin's beef lies in the core issue that everything should be pay-per-service. No exceptions.

Regardless of the original intent. The reality that we are left with is that GSR is not considered a covered service any longer in Alberta... I'm a little curious though, would all those in favour of GSR surgery support the opportunity for the transgender population (that seek GSR) to relocate to their communities specifically to receive the 'free' surgery?

I wonder how much support you'd observe for that when the cost of a number of folks, possibly from more than one province begin to relocate to a jurisdiction where GSR is covered by 'the system'?

I'd wager that it would take one or two reports on the evening news before the 'system' was changed for the very same reasons that it is changing in AB.

again, you miss the point....he's not suggesting everything should be "pay-for-service" either. He is suggesting that if GSR is delisted, then why not delist pregnancy and birth related services. We would save a whole lot more money delisting those services over GSR.

 

[captain morgan]

again, you miss the point....he's not suggesting everything should be "pay-for-service" either. He is suggesting that if GSR is delisted, then why not delist pregnancy and birth related services. We would save a whole lot more money delisting those services over GSR.

... Are you (or Kreskin) suggesting that GSR surgery - that is entirely based on the subjective 'feeling' of the patient is somehow equilivalent to pregnancy by virtue of the fact that someone decided to have a baby?

Really. That is an extraordinarily thin argument... Really, do you think it reasonable to equate the propogation/survival of the species with those that have (primarily) psychological issues?

There really isn't a comparison, is there?

 

[Kreskin]

CM, the argument is tongue in cheek but represents the kind of foundation many will put into a healthcare argument. If you don't need it you don't get it paid for. However it was also an extension of my point about infertility. There is nothing equal or fair about infertile couples having to pay into the system(s) to fund everything including schools, healthcare for minors, government agencies (even the $1200 yearly childcare cheques for 6 and under) but can't use healthcare for their own specific needs. If we are to discriminate then everyone should start bucking up or looking for alternatives, or people with infertility should start keeping their money for their needs and not yours or your kids.

 

[captain morgan]

I can appreciate your perspective and I believe I have an understanding of what you're driving at... In the end, much of our conversation was formed on the statements found in the Canada Healthcare Act, specifically relating to access and physical/mental health.

In the end, everyone knows that these statements were/are pie-in-the-sky. The system is bound by fiscal restraints, if it weren't, we would not be having this conversation.

In terms of GSR surgeries, the recipients have had a good run up to now. Currently, they are the most recent casualty, but by no means will they be the last. The costs will dictate the level of services and as cash gets tighter, the reaction will be to de-list something else. In order to placate the majority, it will be the specialized services that get sacrificed, just like GSRs.

It wasn't right/fair when it happened to other services in the past, it isn't fair to GSRs today and it won't be fair to whatever gets axed in the future.

 

[Kreskin]

In 2004 an IVF patient wrote to the Alberta government asking them why IVF wasn't funded but GRS and abortion was. I dug out the letter of response from Gary Mar (minister of health for Alberta at the time). His response was;

"Gender Dysphoria (significant feelings of depression, dissatisfaction, anxiety and unhappiness due to an individual’s gender) is a serious medical condition. While I sympathize with your situation, there are no avenues of funding available through the Government of Alberta to cover the costs for IVF".

It looks like it isn't a "serious medical condition" anymore.

I think simple politics will dictate what gets funded. If you can win votes by listing then it will be listed. If delisting would lose votes en mass, it will stay listed no matter what it is or how much it costs. The same for the CPP and OAS issues. It won't matter what fiscal condition the feds are as it relates to these pension programs. Reducing or cancelling benefits would amount to political suicide given the political power of boomers. Cuts will come at the expense of those with a smaller voice at the voting booth.

It appears the GRS situation is one, and, as you said, probably just the start.

 

[Cannuck]

Well maybe if they fire up the mint in Ottawa for an extra couple of hours a day.:lol:

Just change priorities.