Gay advocates fight churches' charity status

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Gay advocates fight c

Freedom of speech does not extend to hate speech or inciting violence against others, Jay. Freedom of expression does not extend to beating others. Freedom of religion does not extend to forcing your religion on others.

 

[Jay]

I simply believe that hate speech laws are unconstitutional.

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Gay advocates fight churches' charity status

"Yes, Paul Martin (Who by the way is an ultra-left wing politician) is Catholic, but he will pay the price (I hope) for his same sex marriage legislation at the next election."

You're calling Paul Martin ultra left wing? My God, he's more a part of the conservative(small c)/fiancial circles than anyone since Mulroney....He's more conservative than Joe Clark ever was.

You have a strange view of the left wing.

Ok, lets take a look just how far left he really is ... he's against the death penalty, he's in favor of social spending instead of individual/corporation tax cuts (particularly that deal with the NDP), he's against the traditional definition of marriage, he supports gun control for the law abiding, he's in favor of abortion rights.

So with all these traits attributed to Paul Martin, how can you still say he's not a ultra left wing politician? He doesn't support a single right wing (aka moderate) view. Is it any wonder he doesn't have any MPs in Alberta.

 

[TenPenny]

Let's see, he supports massive spending reductions in order to bring the deficit under control; he supports reductions in corporate taxes, he supports family trusts to protect wealthy families, he supports offshore registration of ships,

he just doesn't support Harper's vision of the world. Nor do most Canadians, but Harper hasn't clued in yet.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Gay advocates fight churches' charity status

Ok, lets take a look just how far left he really is ... he's against the death penalty, he's in favor of social spending instead of individual/corporation tax cuts (particularly that deal with the NDP), he's against the traditional definition of marriage, he supports gun control for the law abiding, he's in favor of abortion rights.

So with all these traits attributed to Paul Martin, how can you still say he's not a ultra left wing politician? He doesn't support a single right wing (aka moderate) view. Is it any wonder he doesn't have any MPs in Alberta.

Like many people from the right of the political spectrum, you seem to be suffering from PADD...Political Attention Deficit Disorder...not entirely your fault, what with the ever-changing rhetoric that the Conservative party puts forth in defense of their indefensible posturing...

So pay attention now:

he's against the death penalty

When the Death Penalty was abolished in 1976, it was mostly due to pressure from church organizations that supported the right to life, including the Roman Catholic Church. Those same organizations are now staunch supporters of the Conservative Party's campaign of bigotry and anti-choice...so the issue of reinstating the death penalty cannot be approached as being either left or right...

http://www.amnesty.ca/deathpenalty/canada.php

he's in favor of social spending instead of individual/corporation tax cuts (particularly that deal with the NDP)

You do remember the original budget right? That budget had all sorts of goodies for the corporatists, which is why the Cons supported it initially. However, they kept shooting their mouths off about toppling the government and playing childish games in Parliament. The deal with the NDP (which brought forth the amendments that a majority of Canadians support, by the way) was made because the Liberals wanted to align the Cons with the Bloc...and in falling into the web, the Cons killed any chance at all for them to be able capitalize on anything the Libs do...it was pure poetry, politically speaking...

he's against the traditional definition of marriage

Actually, he's against the discrimination of minorities based upon sexual orientation, as well he should be.

he supports gun control for the law abiding

Yes...and?

he's in favor of abortion rights

Yes...and?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I simply believe that hate speech laws are unconstitutional.

The Constitution, and specifically the Charter of Rights and Freedoms are documents that are designed to protect ALL Canadians from being victims of discrimination.

In protecting a group's or individual's right to free speech so that they can continue to promote hatred toward minorities is analogous to a someone committing sexual assault and getting away with his/her crime because the victim happened to scratch him/her while defending themselves...

 

[Numure]

Last I checked Paul Martin is a Catholic, so was Jean Chretien.

True that...and I think that it's a testament to their statesmanship that they were able to keep their religion separate from their politics...that's about the only thing good I can say about those two clowns though... :lol:

I can agree to that. Only thing good about them.

 

[Numure]

It doesn't matter what religion you have, whether it is protestant or catholic, that is irrelevant, but if you openly disagree with your own church, that is not a good method for winning elections. You are flip-flopping and it doesn't look good.

Yes, Paul Martin (Who by the way is an ultra-left wing politician) is Catholic, but he will pay the price (I hope) for his same sex marriage legislation at the next election.

The contrary is whats keeping Harper out of Office, btw. Canadians, and Québécois dislike politicians that do not keep State and Religion seperate. We don't mind if your protestant, or Catholic, or a Muslim, as long as you make your policies according to what Canadians think.

Small stat, Church attendance in Québec is at 10%, all of them combined(religions).

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Gay advocates fight churches' charity status

"Well of course you will defend it Jay, regardless of the facts or the truths..."

I'm going to defend freedom of speech. Otherwise what do we have?

You know, the funny thing about equality is everybody is supposed to be equal. Take the gay marriage issue for example. Now that the law has passed, those of us opposed have to respect the law, at least for the time being, meaning we have to accept something we may not necessarily like or agree with. But now that gays marriage is a law, is it not incumbent on them to accept certain things they may not like, for instance, the position of churches? Equality works both ways, folks, that is why it is equal. Now those of us on the other side are going to demand the same standard be used when dealing with things which the gay community does not like or agree with. And if the gay community does not use the same standards, are we then free to use the words biggoted and hateful?

To quote an old star trek movie: "Sometimes having something is not as good as wanting something" (or something like that).

Basically, if the gay community wants those of us on the "other side" to respect them and their wants, then that same respect and acceptance must come back to us on things they do not like or agree with. Otherwise, the gay community has gained nothing.

 

[Cathou]

Re: RE: Gay advocates fight churches' charity status

"Well of course you will defend it Jay, regardless of the facts or the truths..."

I'm going to defend freedom of speech. Otherwise what do we have?

You know, the funny thing about equality is everybody is supposed to be equal. Take the gay marriage issue for example. Now that the law has passed, those of us opposed have to respect the law, at least for the time being, meaning we have to accept something we may not necessarily like or agree with. But now that gays marriage is a law, is it not incumbent on them to accept certain things they may not like, for instance, the position of churches? Equality works both ways, folks, that is why it is equal. Now those of us on the other side are going to demand the same standard be used when dealing with things which the gay community does not like or agree with. And if the gay community does not use the same standards, are we then free to use the words biggoted and hateful?

To quote an old star trek movie: "Sometimes having something is not as good as wanting something" (or something like that).

Basically, if the gay community wants those of us on the "other side" to respect them and their wants, then that same respect and acceptance must come back to us on things they do not like or agree with. Otherwise, the gay community has gained nothing.

you know blue, it's a safe call to say that most homosexual just... dont care about the church position. the battle was not for a religious recognition of marriage, but a civil one. Personnally, i wouldnt support a bill that force church to marry homosexuals