Franco-German Axis wants to revive EU Constitution.

[Blackleaf]

France and Germany, 2 countries not renowned for democracy, want to revive the EU Constitution, even though the French and Dutch public voted AGAINST it and the EU promised that it wouldn't come into effect if just ONE country votes against it -

French in EU treaty bid
By MICHAEL LEA

FRANCE and Germany are in secret talks to revive the dumped EU Constitution.

President Jacques Chirac and Chancellor Angela Merkel are determined that a huge chunk of the treaty will NOT be put to voters.

Only parts dealing with administration and procedure in Brussels will go to a referendum.

Shadow Foreign Secretary William Hague last night urged PM Tony Blair to veto any attempt to bring back the treaty.

He said: “It would be an undemocratic outrage to bring in this Constitution by stealth.”

French and Dutch voters rejected the Constitution last year. Under the Franco-German plot the charter would be stripped of its controversial political aims.

It would then be put to a fresh poll as a rulebook revamp. Meanwhile the policy element of the Constitution would be left to MPs to approve.

A huge chunk of the Constitution is being smuggled into UK law without any vote, former Downing Street aide Lord Blackwell has warned.

 

[cortez]

VIVE LA FRANCE!!!!!!!

 

[Finder]

"France and Germany, 2 countries not renowned for democracy"
"Franco-German Axis"

wow you or who ever wrote this writes like the sun. Trying to paint nations like nazi's or in a negitive way by the use of words which most6 people would take as negitive. First of all both Germany and france are very healthy democracies. More so then Canada then Canada I would say. Secondly there's nothing wrong with the EU constitution. Really the only two forces in Europe which oppsed it was the far left, usually but not always Communist parties and this wasn't even a fact with all communist parties and a handful of socialist parties and most of the far right parties didn't want it to pass. Pretty much all of the social democratic, liberal and most conservative parties supported it.

 

[jimmoyer]

One thing is definitely wrong with the EU constitution as it stands written.

Damn thing is over 500 pages.

Really it needs to paint a few broad indicators
and the gaps can be filled in by interpretation and
statute fortifying its essential spirit.

Constitutions are supposed to by a guide to live by,
not some bureaucratic nightmare of micro-management.

 

[I think not]

France and Germany, 2 countries not renowned for democracy

8O

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of the article, it's probably straight out of the British propaganda machine.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: Franco-German Axis wa

weeeeeelllllllll...........I think not



youve probably got a point, but "British propaganda", tut tut, what have we been trying to teach you?...this country (the United Kingdom) have many differing voices, many differing opinions..unlike america's..."dog nammit lets get behind the pres" jargon, and that is probably a popular opinion from some, my personal opinion is that France piloted the global scheme of "telling everyone about liberty while secretly being completly against it"...I wonder who learnt that one?

besides, Germany is trying....for sure, although their recent record isnt too great they've never said one thing and meant another.....even Hitler openly said he was against democracy so you expect it.

 

[cortez]

France and Germany, 2 countries not renowned for democracy,

saying so does not make it so

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Franco-German Axis wa

weeeeeelllllllll...........I think not



youve probably got a point, but "British propaganda", tut tut, what have we been trying to teach you?...this country (the United Kingdom) have many differing voices, many differing opinions..unlike america's..."dog nammit lets get behind the pres" jargon, and that is probably a popular opinion from some, my personal opinion is that France piloted the global scheme of "telling everyone about liberty while secretly being completly against it"...I wonder who learnt that one?

besides, Germany is trying....for sure, although their recent record isnt too great they've never said one thing and meant another.....even Hitler openly said he was against democracy so you expect it.

Very touchy Daz_Hockey, I meant Blackleaf is the British propaganda machine. And please don't presume you understand American society, because you have shown in your posts you are clueless.

 

[jimmoyer]

I like Blackleaf's British propaganda machine.

Welcome back ITN.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: Franco-German Axis wa

clueless...nah that's my "british side" coming out.....but I dont take it personally...besides, I'm fully aware of the many differing opinions held all over the states, I know it quite often depends on the specific region you go to...I should think I do understand a fair bit of american society...I bet I've been to more states than you....and when youve travelled all round my country for long periods of time, please feel free to say the same

as you say, dont presume

 

[I think not]

I've been to 46 states, 7 out of 10 Canadian provinces and 1 territory and all over Britain and a good chunk of Europe and I still never presume anything.

 

[cortez]

Re: RE: Franco-German Axis wa

weeeeeelllllllll...........I think not



youve probably got a point, but "British propaganda", tut tut, what have we been trying to teach you?...this country (the United Kingdom) have many differing voices, many differing opinions..unlike america's..."dog nammit lets get behind the pres" jargon, and that is probably a popular opinion from some, my personal opinion is that France piloted the global scheme of "telling everyone about liberty while secretly being completly against it"...I wonder who learnt that one?

besides, Germany is trying....for sure, although their recent record isnt too great they've never said one thing and meant another.....even Hitler openly said he was against democracy so you expect it.

your thought patterns are a virtual tangle of nonsequetors

i cant tell if your trying to be funny or not

your teaching me, by negative example--- by demonstating one informal logical fallacy after another

and other statements are just bizarre
for example
to say EVEN hitler openly said he was against democracy --- is most bizarre

thats like saying EVEN Einstein openly supported the theory of relativaty
or EVEN the pope openly says he believes in the existence of God
or whatever.............

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: Franco-German Axis wa

now....you see all these "British" posters giving almost semi-anti-american (or EU)posts?......I think you should put ur "not from America cap" on....just look from the outside in.

It's what everyone else see's or thinks it see's.....I can certainly agree, there are many differing views and opinions and you cannot use a line like "all americans are fat" cus it's just not true, but thats wht most of the world think...another example, in the main...around the world.....does it look like you disagree with a man with the IQ of a retarded chipmonk?...well the populous re-elected him.....what I'm saying is this, I KNOW what you are saying is true, and the points of view I express are sometimes different to yours...but I'm trying to balance it.

 

[FiveParadox]

jimmoyer, you make a good point in terms of the composition of the proposed constitution; such texts should, wherever possible (in my opinion) be broad and open to interpretation, as is the case with the Constitution Act, 1982 of Canada.

 

[Toro]

The French voted against the European constitution as a vote against the government and globalization. Now, the powers-that-be, especially the French government, with France covered in glories of the past while not seeing that it is slowly being consigned to the dustbin of history, is desparately trying to revive deeper integration. Yet, it continues to undermine this goal by its parochial, nationalistic economic policies.

Its amusing to watch the French bumble around like Inspector Clouseau.

 

[Toro]

RE: Franco-German Axis wa

Great picture of Chirac BTW Blackleaf!

 

[cortez]

it is admittedly a wonderfull picture
he seems to saying

excuse moi
jai fait une vraiment grand farte

 

[Numure]

RE: Franco-German Axis wa

If they want to get a constitution that everyone can sign, they should make it SMALLER! I was in Europe around the time they voted that in. The people in France didnt even know what they we're voting for. So most voted no.

They should make it simple, 30 pages at most. And it will pass.

 

[jimmoyer]

One thing is definitely wrong with the EU constitution as it stands written.

Damn thing is over 500 pages.

Really it needs to paint a few broad indicators
and the gaps can be filled in by interpretation and
statute fortifying its essential spirit.

Constitutions are supposed to by a guide to live by,
not some bureaucratic nightmare of micro-management.


Amazingly, I think Iraq has done a better job
of creating a constitution thay may one day have life.

And Iraq might be handling the Saddam trial much
better than the 4 year trial by the World Court of
the now dead Milosovec.