Dumping the Monarchy

[dumpthemonarchy]

Keeping the monarchy makes as much sense as keeping the penny.Time to cash them in.

 

[Starscream]

I'm not disputing that. Your point in your first post was clearly made. It wasn't relevant and it didn't refute the argument that the government of Canada is the Queen's government, as you believed it did, but it was clearly made.

No research? Here is a list of evidences I have used in this thread. Tell me which ones you think haven't been researched and I'll prove them to you.

1) Plenty of nations have politicized heads of state
2) The Queen's recent ancestors (and even her descendants) are not apolitical
3) The United States and India use English Common Law
4) English constitutional and common law have evolved historically
5) The majority of Commonwealth nations are republics
6) The government of Canada is the Queen's government
7) In 1987 Fijian government was overthrown in a military coup and the Queen abdicated
8) Separation of powers is a Greek ideal
9) Plenty of former monarchies are free and prosperous republics

You might noticed that none of this (save number 6) was actually used in support of abolishing the monarchy, but rather used to refute arguments in favour of keeping it. Some of these points you might not be interested in, but they are all laid out there. I'll defend every point I've made.

One point you are specifically asking me to defend, though, is a point I haven't made: that abolishing the monarchy will be materially beneficial to Canada. How will Canadians see an improvement in their health care, trade, taxes and lives if we abolish the monarchy? I don't care. This isn't one of the reasons why I support abolishing it.

Your caps lock and harping isn't going to make me prove a point I haven't made. But, I did ask you prove a point you made and you ignored it.

You said that the acts of 1931 and 1982 made it so that the monarch no longer rules over our affairs. I asked you if you could point out the sections in those acts where it says this. I provided the links to those acts for you, but since you have made such a big deal about research, I suppose it was unnecessary because you had those acts ready for reference, yes? And again, since research is so important to you, I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult for you to produce the sections that prove your claim, because you must have already done the research, yes?

So I await your response.

OK, first of all, we should stop using British Empire. It's a bit anachronistic. Is United Kingdom good for you? Great!

Let me get this straight, are you saying that the United Kingdom and its Monarch (Queen Elizabeth II) are one in the same because the Monarch is the UK's head of state?

Nice post. However, not a single one of your points prove that dumping the monarchy will be beneficial to Canada in any way. The majority of the Commonwealth Nations are republics? What does that prove? And exactly where are they on the U.N.'s human index? Not in the top ten that's for sure. Not a good argument for this country to get rid of the monarchy. If the Queen owns the government as you say then how come her title as head of state is largely ceremonial?

If you don't care that dumping the monarchy would be beneficial to Canada (materially or socially) then why bother getting rid of it? And don't bother using your cliched we are a free people banter because that just doesn't hold any weight. You support having Canada as a republic? Then what reasons do you have?

 

[Corduroy]

Nice post. However, not a single one of your points prove that dumping the monarchy will be beneficial to Canada in any way.

Why haven't any of my points proven that dumping the monarchy will be beneficial because, I repeat:

One point you are specifically asking me to defend, though, is a point I haven't made: that abolishing the monarchy will be materially beneficial to Canada. How will Canadians see an improvement in their health care, trade, taxes and lives if we abolish the monarchy? I don't care. This isn't one of the reasons why I support abolishing it.

I'm getting tired you missing the point and me having to repeat myself.

The majority of the Commonwealth Nations are republics? What does that prove? And exactly where are they on the U.N.'s human index? Not in the top ten that's for sure. Not a good argument for this country to get rid of the monarchy.

Why aren't these arguments good arguments to get rid of the monarchy, I repeat:

You might noticed that none of this (save number 6) was actually used in support of abolishing the monarchy, but rather used to refute arguments in favour of keeping it.

I'm getting tired you missing the point and me having to repeat myself.

If the Queen owns the government as you say then how come her title as head of state is largely ceremonial?

Owning the government and being a largely ceremonial head of state are not mutually exclusive conditions.

If you don't care that dumping the monarchy would be beneficial to Canada (materially or socially) then why bother getting rid of it? And don't bother using your cliched we are a free people banter because that just doesn't hold any weight. You support having Canada as a republic? Then what reasons do you have?

Monarchists are often big on symbolism and so am I. The Queen is our symbolic overlord. I want Canadians to have symbolic self-determination.


And I'm going to ask this for a third time:

You said that the acts of 1931 and 1982 made it so that the monarch no longer rules over our affairs. I asked you if you could point out the sections in those acts where it says this. I provided the links to those acts for you, but since you have made such a big deal about research, I suppose it was unnecessary because you had those acts ready for reference, yes? And again, since research is so important to you, I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult for you to produce the sections that prove your claim, because you must have already done the research, yes?

So I await your response.

And also this a second time:

The British Empire's head of state IS the Monarchy, so my use of British Empire is valid.

OK, first of all, we should stop using British Empire. It's a bit anachronistic. Is United Kingdom good for you? Great!

Let me get this straight, are you saying that the United Kingdom and its Monarch (Queen Elizabeth II) are one in the same because the Monarch is the UK's head of state?

 

[Starscream]

Why haven't any of my points proven that dumping the monarchy will be beneficial because, I repeat:

One point you are specifically asking me to defend, though, is a point I haven't made: that abolishing the monarchy will be materially beneficial to Canada. How will Canadians see an improvement in their health care, trade, taxes and lives if we abolish the monarchy? I don't care. This isn't one of the reasons why I support abolishing it.

I'm getting tired you missing the point and me having to repeat myself.



Why aren't these arguments good arguments to get rid of the monarchy, I repeat:

You might noticed that none of this (save number 6) was actually used in support of abolishing the monarchy, but rather used to refute arguments in favour of keeping it.

I'm getting tired you missing the point and me having to repeat myself.



Owning the government and being a largely ceremonial head of state are not mutually exclusive conditions.



Monarchists are often big on symbolism and so am I. The Queen is our symbolic overlord. I want Canadians to have symbolic self-determination.


And I'm going to ask this for a third time:

You said that the acts of 1931 and 1982 made it so that the monarch no longer rules over our affairs. I asked you if you could point out the sections in those acts where it says this. I provided the links to those acts for you, but since you have made such a big deal about research, I suppose it was unnecessary because you had those acts ready for reference, yes? And again, since research is so important to you, I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult for you to produce the sections that prove your claim, because you must have already done the research, yes?

So I await your response.

And also this a second time:

OK, first of all, we should stop using British Empire. It's a bit anachronistic. Is United Kingdom good for you? Great!

Let me get this straight, are you saying that the United Kingdom and its Monarch (Queen Elizabeth II) are one in the same because the Monarch is the UK's head of state?

You want me to answer your questions, but yet you disreguard and ignore mine in the same breath. Yeah, a real good way to carry on a debate/discussion. You don't even provide any proof that getting rid of the monarchy would benefit this country in any way what so ever. When you change something, it is to usually get an improvement over the previous one, especialy when changing an entire political system. To do so just for the sake of symbolism is not a valid reason to change the whole political system of Canada, and is just absurd. No Canadian in their right mind would ever change the system from Constitutional Monarchy to Republic over that.

So your reason to get rid of the Monarchy is because of symbolism? That's it? That is complete rubbish and no one would ever support dumping the monarchy over that. Surely you must have other reasons, better reasons. Your case for aboloshing the Monarchy so far doesn't hold any water and your complete dismissing of questions, nick picking over grammar, and complete lack of proof only shows that your reasoning for getting rid of the Monarchy is based purely on what looks like a personal dislike of a symbol.

Here's another question you can disreguard: Exactly what do you see as symbolic sefl-determination to be our head of state?