Dog banning

D

Diamond Sun

Council Member
Jun 11, 2004
1,366
1
38
Within arms reach of the new baby..
If you have some time, check out this site. It makes for some interesting reading on the situation of Dog Banning in Germany, and demonstrates how paranoia can get completely out of control.

http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/dogholocaust/k-nein.html

One very interesting fact on there is the following:
1998 DOG BITE LIST - GERMANY
58 breeds registered:


German Shepherd Dog mixes: 2,379
German Shepherd Dogs: 1,956
Rottweiler: 542
"Pit Bull": 320
Doberman Pinscher: 223
Bull Terrier: 169

However, the German Shepherd Dog is not included in the list of Dangerous Dogs in Germany. Why?
 
Cosmo

Cosmo

House Member
Jul 10, 2004
3,725
23
38
Victoria, BC
Excellent article, Diamond Sun.

Haggis, you and I will have to agree to disagree on the dog and the gun issues. For me, I'm off to buy my JR a new jacket so she can stay warm until we're out of this god-forsaken, snowbound valley. It's me, not the dog, people have to worry about these days! Cold weather brings out the worst in me. :)
 
L

LadyC

Time Out
Sep 3, 2004
1,340
0
36
the left coast
One thing you rarely see in stats on dog bites is the per capita bite ratio. (I have no idea how to say this... can you tell?)

Look at the above list - if there are more German Shepherds and Shepherd crosses in Germany, wouldn't it stand to reason that they'd bite more? If there were only 10 bites by a particular breed in a year, but only 20 of them in the area, wouldn't it stand to reason they could be considered a dangerous breed?

My brother-in-law loves rotties. He likes the idea of having a big dog "for protection", and he makes sure the ones he's had are very well trained. Still - who would want a dog that outweighs them? One of their dogs pinned my sister-in-law to the wall twice when he thought she was threatening her husband. She's 5 foot nothing and they were play-fighting. They finally got rid of the dog when he bit their little girl. (She bit him first, but still...)

If he were my dog he'd have been gone the first time he threatened me.

I don't agree with banning breeds, nor do I believe it's always the owners' fault. But I think that if someone has a vicious dog, they should be monitored - make sure it was a one-time event.
 
B

bevvyd

Electoral Member
Jul 29, 2004
848
0
16
Mission, BC
My dog out weighs me. She's a golden lab that we got from the pound. Actually I was asked to foster her till a new home could be found for her. But she was a keeper and has been a wonderful new addition to bevvyd's critter family. She got run over this last summer and has trouble getting up and around easily, so I'm going to buy her a ramp to get into my truck, cause I can't lift her. She'll love that.
 
L

LadyC

Time Out
Sep 3, 2004
1,340
0
36
the left coast
Yeah.. she bit his ear. She was pretty young at the time, and the first rottie they had was a real sweetheart - she was no more of a guard dog than I am.

Fortunately for her, there was no visible scars - one tooth went in one nostril, another right along her hairline. To be fair to the dog, it was probably just a reaction to her biting him, but given his history, why take any chances?

Labs are great dogs, either purebred or in a mix.
 
R

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Are they protecting their owners when they attack small dogs and small children?
Click to expand...

It's definitely a factor. Don't ever fall into the trap of thinking that dogs are people or think like people. Dogs attack to establish dominance, protect their pack or territory, or because their prey instinct has been triggered. Not a lot lot room for reasoning there.

If a dog attacks it is a human's fault. We made them. We keep them. We are responsible for them.

It's odd that you bring up German Shepherds. I had one, huge and violent. That was her nature. She was sure that everybody who wasn't me was an axe murderer. She was way over-protective. On the other hand, she'd lay on my chest playing "bite your face off" and never hurt me.

She also, if introduced properly, was a pal to everybody. She never really trusted them...she still looked at me to confirm Mrs. Rev's commands until the day she died...but she accepted that I wanted her to do listen.

Clyde was never listed as a dangerous dog even though she was likely more dangeous than most. Large, dominant, unwilling to cede, unwilling to accept authority, very willing to fight.

She never gnawed on anybody too badly though, and never touched anybody who didn't earn it. The one time she thought about going after somebody who didn't deserve it I said one word and she backed off.

I've been attacked by three German Shepherds in my life. It's been the same story each and every time...they perceived a threat and acted on it. Should we ban them? No.

It's a matter of training and tolerance and understanding. The average pitbull isn't any more of a problem than Clyde was. Huge and violent dogs are all puppies at heart. They'll all fight to the death for their pack too. It's up to us to define the pack and acceptable behaviour within it.
 
Andem

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,645
130
63
Larnaka
I agree with Rev's points. Dogs are our creation as pets and they aren't necessarily going to be trusting of everyone hense attacking.

My grandmother's dog was a vicious thing. You could pet him and play with him while she was around, but if you go near her, hug her, get something from her or just converse with her, the dog would get jelious and vicious.. Jumping and biting at the chance.

Another strange thing is he attacked people when they left the house. They aren't humans and they don't have the same mentality as us.
 
Cosmo

Cosmo

House Member
Jul 10, 2004
3,725
23
38
Victoria, BC
I agree with Rev and Andem. Dogs are not people and too many of us make the mistake of expecting them to both behave in a civilized manner and to assume responsibility for their actions. Dogs bite. It's how it is. Banning dogs is not the answer. Banning bad dog owners is more rational.

I am in the midst of an aggressive dog problem right now. My JR has decided that biting is acceptable. As responsible dog owners, we are going to seek out a behaviourist in Victoria and learn how to treat the dog like a dog. The entire problem comes down to us treating her like a human. The dog is just doing what dogs do within the framework of what we have taught her. My sister's pit bull is safer to be around than my JR! And the problem rests squarely on the my shoulders as an owner -- it is not the dog's fault at all.

Jeez, Bevvy ... either you must be a teeny little thing or that lab of your's must be a giant! I grew up with labs and collies ... both wonderful dogs. :)
 
D

Diamond Sun

Council Member
Jun 11, 2004
1,366
1
38
Within arms reach of the new baby..
Re: RE: Dog banning

Andem said:
My grandmother's dog was a vicious thing. You could pet him and play with him while she was around, but if you go near her, hug her, get something from her or just converse with her, the dog would get jelious and vicious.. Jumping and biting at the chance.
Click to expand...

That's really interesting Andem. I know that most birds (especially the larger social birds like Cockatoos and Parrots) were like that, very very protective of their owner, but I've never seen a dog that protective.

It's true that as pet owners, of any pet, we have to remember that they are animals, and all animals can be unpredictable, regardless of what we've done to "bring them up". Just outright banning doesn't solve any of the problems of irresponsibility.
 
B

bevvyd

Electoral Member
Jul 29, 2004
848
0
16
Mission, BC
Cosmo, she is an overweight golden lab X. Not sure what the X is but we think it might be a bit shepherd and her fur is certainly grown in like a shepherds.

But with me off work I'll be able to give her more exercise than she is used to. We think she was a mamma at a puppy farm, but we're not totally sure as the people completely lied on the questionnaire from the SPCA. But she is loveable, well trained and well mannered which is why we kept her.
 
Andem

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,645
130
63
Larnaka
10943 Total Signatures. That's a lot for an online petition. I can't say I'm going to sign it. I think pitbulls are generally more vicious than other dogs and seeing children and small breeds of animals killed and molled because there's so many owners who refuse to look after them. Banning this breed is probably the only real solution to the problem.

Sorry to everyone who owns a pitbull, but you'll be able to keep it. It's just new owners won't be able to get one.
 
Haggis McBagpipe

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
5,085
7
38
Victoria, B.C.
Andem said:
10943 Total Signatures. That's a lot for an online petition. I can't say I'm going to sign it. I think pitbulls are generally more vicious than other dogs and seeing children and small breeds of animals killed and molled because there's so many owners who refuse to look after them. Banning this breed is probably the only real solution to the problem.

Sorry to everyone who owns a pitbull, but you'll be able to keep it. It's just new owners won't be able to get one.
Click to expand...

I'm with you 100% on this, Andem. Although on the other hand, I think a better solution to banning the breed would be to send them all to the White House. In attack mode.
 
L

LadyC

Time Out
Sep 3, 2004
1,340
0
36
the left coast
I don't have a problem with banning the vicious breeds. Yes, any dog can and will bite if provoked, but it's a matter of degree. A dog that outweighs me or locks its jaws will do a heck of a lot more damage than one I can pick up and punt across the room.

Jack Russells seem to be a rather "nippy" breed - at least the ones I've seen - but it may be more the way they're treated. A lot of owners of small dogs treat them more as pampered children than as family pets.

One friend has a Border Collie. When she first got him, he'd jump up on everyone and he bit or nipped at most of us. One day he bit a lady who happens to be a dog trainer. She kicked him, and all heck broke loose. My friend took offense, saying "He's never done that before." The rest of us stood there with our mouths hanging open, as one by one we said, "he's bit me too, and you know that."

If your dog acts aggressively, you have to show him who the alpha (fe)male is. Flip him over on his back (submissive position), hold him down with your knee on his chest and look him straight in the eye, till he looks away. Repeat as often as necessary.
:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom