Deserters: We Won't Go To Iraq
- Thread starter moghrabi
- Start date
Well the possibility of Death would allow them to stay in Canada, but the Americans will probably say just jail time to get them back. They the americans know we do not extradite anyone facing the death penalty so I believe it will be taken off the table.
I like the fact that Canada can remain a neutral country at these times when people think of moving North. I think it makes our country look good that they can remain in a similar culture (similar in some ways, different in others), similar standard of living and remain on the same continent while fleeing the political turmoil down south.
I also get the same feeling though, in some ways, as moghrabi. RE: Use and Abuse. They would probably otherwise never even show any interest in Canada if it didn't suit their necessities at that one time. But aren't we all like that? Doctors flee Canada because of necessity and/or greed. They want more.
I also get the same feeling though, in some ways, as moghrabi. RE: Use and Abuse. They would probably otherwise never even show any interest in Canada if it didn't suit their necessities at that one time. But aren't we all like that? Doctors flee Canada because of necessity and/or greed. They want more.
Police charge Fort Stewart soldier with staging shooting to avoid Iraq
By Randy Pennell
December 16, 2004
Police arrested a Fort Stewart, Ga., soldier Thursday after he allegedly had his cousin shoot him so he wouldn't have to return to Iraq.
Army Spc. Marquise J. Roberts, of Hinesville, Ga., suffered a minor wound to the leg from a .22 caliber pistol, police said. He was treated at a hospital, then arrested after he allegedly confessed to having made up a story about the shooting.
Police charged Roberts with filing a false report.
Roberts, 23, was on a two-week leave from the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, which led the assault on Baghdad in 2003 and is scheduled to return to Iraq within the next few months.
Police said Roberts, who was in Iraq for seven months, was distraught about having to return to combat duty, and wanted to stay with his family.
Lt. Col. Cliff Kent, a spokesman for the 3rd Infantry, said Roberts had been scheduled to return from leave to Fort Stewart this week.
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/politics/10433554.htm
By Randy Pennell
December 16, 2004
Police arrested a Fort Stewart, Ga., soldier Thursday after he allegedly had his cousin shoot him so he wouldn't have to return to Iraq.
Army Spc. Marquise J. Roberts, of Hinesville, Ga., suffered a minor wound to the leg from a .22 caliber pistol, police said. He was treated at a hospital, then arrested after he allegedly confessed to having made up a story about the shooting.
Police charged Roberts with filing a false report.
Roberts, 23, was on a two-week leave from the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, which led the assault on Baghdad in 2003 and is scheduled to return to Iraq within the next few months.
Police said Roberts, who was in Iraq for seven months, was distraught about having to return to combat duty, and wanted to stay with his family.
Lt. Col. Cliff Kent, a spokesman for the 3rd Infantry, said Roberts had been scheduled to return from leave to Fort Stewart this week.
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/politics/10433554.htm
RE: Deserters: We Won't G
How can a guy so deperate to avoid going to Iraq possibly be effective when he is forced to be there?
How can a guy so deperate to avoid going to Iraq possibly be effective when he is forced to be there?
Deserters Are Heroes
View From The Left
By Harley Sorensen
December 13, 2004
Today let us take the sad, sordid case of one George W. Bush. Our president. Love him or hate him, it was he and he alone who decided that our mighty armies should travel to Iraq and kill tens of thousands of people, most of whom were guilty of nothing more than being there.
Like egomaniacal rulers forever, dating back to the cave, Mr. Bush demonized the people he wanted to kill. They have "weapons of mass destruction," he asserted. Yeah, like we don't. Like India doesn't. Like Israel doesn't. Like Pakistan doesn't. Like China doesn't. Like Russia doesn't. Why don't we invade them? Or ourselves?
It turned out the Iraqis didn't have those terrible weapons. But, the Iraqis are evil, Mr. Bush asserted. Well, at least their leader was, so, by extension, they all were. And, by gosh and by golly, they might have harbored terrorists at one time or another.
Quickly now, name a country that harbored the Sept. 11 terrorists! Ah, that was too easy. You got it right away. The answer: the United States of America. That's who sheltered the 19 terrorists before their attacks on Manhattan and Washington. That's where those terrorists worked and played, ate and slept, plotted and rehearsed right up to that tragic day. The U.S. of A.
But, willing to overlook all that, and with a leader as esteemed and honest and clear-eyed as Mr. Bush, thousands of young men and women, eager to serve their country and save us from the Iraqi monsters, rushed to the recruiting offices to join up.
It's an old, old story, dating back to the first war out of the cave. Young people, eager to do what's right, end up being pawns moved around the board by older men with secret ambitions.
The young people fight heroically and die heroically, and their broken bodies are shipped back home where their next of kin try to make sense of it all and can do so only by turning to their faith in God and their faith in the good intentions of their ambitious leader, Mr. Bush.
But not all young people are eager to die for Mr. Bush. Military recruiters are having difficulty finding enough cannon fodder to fill their quotas. More significantly, men and women already in uniform are rebelling. They're refusing to fight for Mr. Bush and his secret ambitions. They're deserting by the thousands. According to "60 Minutes" last week (quoting the Pentagon), more than 5,500 servicemen have deserted since the beginning of Mr. Bush's war.
That's an amazing number. And it offers hope that perhaps not all our young people are locked into caveman mentality. At least 5,500 of them have advanced to the level of thinking demonstrated at Nuremberg, Germany, in 1945.
Nuremberg is where the Nazi war criminals of World War II were tried. Their common defense was that they were just following orders. The court refused that defense, suggesting that soldiers never have an obligation to follow illegal orders.
Aware of that thinking, at least 5,500 of our troops have decided to desert rather than take part in senseless killing.
In the eyes of many, Mr. Bush's war against the people of Iraq is absolutely illegal. When one country attacks another, destroys it, and kills its people, without overt provocation, that constitutes an illegal war.
The Geneva Conventions, of which the United States is a signatory, is absolutely clear on that.
Now, if you've been overly influenced by Mr. Bush's clever propaganda, you might declare these deserters "traitors." But if you haven't been taken in by the Bush machine, you might call them heroes in the finest tradition of the United States. They are putting their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor at stake to serve the cause of Right rather than the ambitions of the current president.
If you still think Mr. Bush's war isn't corrupt, then you didn't see a different "60 Minutes" report, this one on Dec. 5. In that report, it was revealed that our government is ordering retired servicemen and servicewomen to return to duty, years and years after the end of their terms of enlistment.
Mr. Bush, eager to keep his campaign promise of "no draft," has taken draconian measures to fill out our military ranks. One of the recalled veterans interviewed on "60 Minutes" was a 55-year-old woman, Margaret Murray, who last served during the Vietnam War. Another was a man, Rick Howell, 47, who was permanently injured in an accident during his 16 years in the Army. He can hardly walk, and he says he can't carry more than 30 or 40 pounds. He retired from the Army, or so he thought, in 1997. Now, seven years later, the Army is demanding he return.
Perhaps, in our barely civilized world, someone should inform Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld of this travesty. He thinks our troops should learn to cope with less than the best equipment. But he seems to think differently on the subject of manpower. Perhaps someone should tell him, that, when the president orders up an illegal war, "You go to [that] war with the army you have, not the army you might want."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2004/12/13/hsorensen.DTL
View From The Left
By Harley Sorensen
December 13, 2004
Today let us take the sad, sordid case of one George W. Bush. Our president. Love him or hate him, it was he and he alone who decided that our mighty armies should travel to Iraq and kill tens of thousands of people, most of whom were guilty of nothing more than being there.
Like egomaniacal rulers forever, dating back to the cave, Mr. Bush demonized the people he wanted to kill. They have "weapons of mass destruction," he asserted. Yeah, like we don't. Like India doesn't. Like Israel doesn't. Like Pakistan doesn't. Like China doesn't. Like Russia doesn't. Why don't we invade them? Or ourselves?
It turned out the Iraqis didn't have those terrible weapons. But, the Iraqis are evil, Mr. Bush asserted. Well, at least their leader was, so, by extension, they all were. And, by gosh and by golly, they might have harbored terrorists at one time or another.
Quickly now, name a country that harbored the Sept. 11 terrorists! Ah, that was too easy. You got it right away. The answer: the United States of America. That's who sheltered the 19 terrorists before their attacks on Manhattan and Washington. That's where those terrorists worked and played, ate and slept, plotted and rehearsed right up to that tragic day. The U.S. of A.
But, willing to overlook all that, and with a leader as esteemed and honest and clear-eyed as Mr. Bush, thousands of young men and women, eager to serve their country and save us from the Iraqi monsters, rushed to the recruiting offices to join up.
It's an old, old story, dating back to the first war out of the cave. Young people, eager to do what's right, end up being pawns moved around the board by older men with secret ambitions.
The young people fight heroically and die heroically, and their broken bodies are shipped back home where their next of kin try to make sense of it all and can do so only by turning to their faith in God and their faith in the good intentions of their ambitious leader, Mr. Bush.
But not all young people are eager to die for Mr. Bush. Military recruiters are having difficulty finding enough cannon fodder to fill their quotas. More significantly, men and women already in uniform are rebelling. They're refusing to fight for Mr. Bush and his secret ambitions. They're deserting by the thousands. According to "60 Minutes" last week (quoting the Pentagon), more than 5,500 servicemen have deserted since the beginning of Mr. Bush's war.
That's an amazing number. And it offers hope that perhaps not all our young people are locked into caveman mentality. At least 5,500 of them have advanced to the level of thinking demonstrated at Nuremberg, Germany, in 1945.
Nuremberg is where the Nazi war criminals of World War II were tried. Their common defense was that they were just following orders. The court refused that defense, suggesting that soldiers never have an obligation to follow illegal orders.
Aware of that thinking, at least 5,500 of our troops have decided to desert rather than take part in senseless killing.
In the eyes of many, Mr. Bush's war against the people of Iraq is absolutely illegal. When one country attacks another, destroys it, and kills its people, without overt provocation, that constitutes an illegal war.
The Geneva Conventions, of which the United States is a signatory, is absolutely clear on that.
Now, if you've been overly influenced by Mr. Bush's clever propaganda, you might declare these deserters "traitors." But if you haven't been taken in by the Bush machine, you might call them heroes in the finest tradition of the United States. They are putting their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor at stake to serve the cause of Right rather than the ambitions of the current president.
If you still think Mr. Bush's war isn't corrupt, then you didn't see a different "60 Minutes" report, this one on Dec. 5. In that report, it was revealed that our government is ordering retired servicemen and servicewomen to return to duty, years and years after the end of their terms of enlistment.
Mr. Bush, eager to keep his campaign promise of "no draft," has taken draconian measures to fill out our military ranks. One of the recalled veterans interviewed on "60 Minutes" was a 55-year-old woman, Margaret Murray, who last served during the Vietnam War. Another was a man, Rick Howell, 47, who was permanently injured in an accident during his 16 years in the Army. He can hardly walk, and he says he can't carry more than 30 or 40 pounds. He retired from the Army, or so he thought, in 1997. Now, seven years later, the Army is demanding he return.
Perhaps, in our barely civilized world, someone should inform Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld of this travesty. He thinks our troops should learn to cope with less than the best equipment. But he seems to think differently on the subject of manpower. Perhaps someone should tell him, that, when the president orders up an illegal war, "You go to [that] war with the army you have, not the army you might want."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2004/12/13/hsorensen.DTL