"Deliberate but Accidental"

Freethinker

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Jan 18, 2006
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BitWhys said:
I think in the interests of not making the Conservative faithful look even more foolish it behooves you to stop putting words in my mouth.

Do you believe it was accidental. Yes or No. Why is that so hard?

I have no fear of answering the question. Yes, I believe it was accidental.

For someone who complains about politicians, you seem to match their fear of commiting to anything.

I am a liberal BTW.
 

#juan

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The UN post was not hit by a stray missile, it was hit by a bomb, a large bomb, Large bombs are invariable laser guided. The aircraft that dropped this bomb would have held a laser designator on the target until the bomb hit. The UN post was on the high ground and well marked. An accident? Where? How?
 

BitWhys

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Re: RE: "Deliberate but Accidental"

Freethinker said:
BitWhys said:
I think in the interests of not making the Conservative faithful look even more foolish it behooves you to stop putting words in my mouth.

Do you believe it was accidental. Yes or No. Why is that so hard?
...

that would be because you never asked.

it depends on what you mean by "accident".
 

Freethinker

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Re: RE: "Deliberate but Accidental"

BitWhys said:
it depends on what you mean by "accident".

Much like Bill Clintons, definition of is, is?

I have the feeling you are going to do this dance all day. Reportedly the coordinates were cleared by HQ.

When the person at HQ, cleared the attack on the cooridinates, do you think he realized he just gave the OK to attack the UN outpost.

So by accidental. Did this person make a mistake, or did he decide to clear an attack on the UN. Which do you believe?
 

BitWhys

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Re: RE: "Deliberate but Accidental"

Freethinker said:
I have the feeling you are going to do this dance all day. Reportedly the coordinates were cleared by HQ.

When the person at HQ, cleared the attack on the cooridinates, do you think he realized he just gave the OK to attack the UN outpost.

So by accidental. Did this person make a mistake, or did he decide to clear an attack on the UN. Which do you believe?

there you go. if you don't ask loaded questions I'll be more than happy to try to answer them for you.

neither. that's what the investigation is for.

That doesn't mean I think the whole thing was an accident.
 

Freethinker

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Jan 18, 2006
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How is it a loaded question to ask you what you think? I am not asking what happened with certainty(we may never know), I am asking what you think happened. You are full of so much self righteous anger over this you must have an opinion. Yet you refuse to state it.
 

BitWhys

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Re: RE: "Deliberate but Accidental"

Freethinker said:
How is it a loaded question to ask you what you think? I am not asking what happened with certainty(we may never know), I am asking what you think happened. You are full of so much self righteous anger over this you must have an opinion. Yet you refuse to state it.

a question with more than one possible meaning is loaded. the fact you could be more specific than your original question shows that in this case that's exactly what it was.

class dismissed.
 

Freethinker

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Well since you continue to weasel out of my questions, then just tell me what you think happened.
 

BitWhys

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RE: "Deliberate but Accid

try being civil and I'll do you the courtesy of repeating myself.
 

Freethinker

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Re: RE: "Deliberate but Accid

BitWhys said:
try being civil and I'll do you the courtesy of repeating myself.

Well I already read your vieled implications about the "accidental" attack. At least gopher has the backbone to be clear where he stands. He believes it was intentional.

You OTOH want to issue condemnations as if were an intentional targetting of the UN, without actually saying that you think it was intentional or not. And of course it further depends on the definition of intentional.
 

BitWhys

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RE: "Deliberate but Accid

I haven't made any "vieled" (sic) implications.

maybe that's your conscience talking.
 

BitWhys

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Just the Facts said:
elevennevele said:
People in the world sure care enough to take notice.

If being good guys means having to be spineless appeasers of terrorism and never taking a stand for what's right and defending our principles when it may put us at risk from those who would rejoice at stripping us of our freedom, then I'm fine with not being a "good guy".

The MIPT Database reports 6 incidents of Hezbollah terrorist activity since January 1st 2000 resulting in 8 injuries and 3 deaths. So far Israel has killed 7 Canadian civilians for sure and they're still trying to find the Major's body.

Its getting harder to choose a side all the time.
 

#juan

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When the person at HQ, cleared the attack on the cooridinates, do you think he realized he just gave the OK to attack the UN outpost.

This was an air strike. An Israeli aircraft, likely an F-15, released a laser guided bomb. The bomb was guided right to the target. They would not use coordinates.
 

BitWhys

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RE: "Deliberate but Accid

Actually, Juan, Israel is on record as having cleared the attack at command. They had to have something to go on. If it wasn't coordinates then it just makes the whole scenario worse.
 

#juan

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BitWhys wrote:
Actually, Juan, Israel is on record as having cleared the attack at command. They had to have something to go on.

I have spent some time as a jet pilot and though it was some years ago, the principles are the same. I think the Israelis are putting a bit of spin on this thing. Large bombs are invariably laser guided. Could they mean they cleared an attack on the UN post? The laser guiding mechanisms can't respond to coordinates. The pilot has to hold a laser spot on the target til the bomb hits. You'd think the pilot would know what target he was designating.
 

BitWhys

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IC

thanks for your patience. I realize SOMEONE had to have eyeballed it.
 

BitWhys

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RE: "Deliberate but Accid

Do you know if Israeli jets communicate video to command? I know they had sound and video for the Afghanistan affair.
 

#juan

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I know that most American fighters have a video camera that watches the pilot as well as one that watches through the windscreen and sees what the pilot sees. These cameras record into the black box so at the end of the day they can look at everything the pilot did and everything the aircraft did. Not only do they get a recording of the pilot's performance, they also have valuable info if the pilot makes a mistake and ends up in a "smoking hole in the ground" along with his aircraft.
 

BitWhys

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Lewis MacKenzie? 1997 Conservative Party Candidate for Parry Sound-Muskoka? Slamming Annan?

go figure.

rebutal

Premature judgment
EDWARD MORTIMER
director of communications, executive office of the Secretary-General, United Nations

New York -- The United Nations observers who died in Lebanon on July 25 were killed by an Israeli attack. Retired major-general Lewis MacKenzie's criticism of the Secretary-General's remarks that this was an "apparently deliberate targeting" is itself premature and misplaced (Kofi Annan's Hasty Rush To Judgment -- July 27).

Mr. Annan's expression of shock and distress was based on very precise reports received from the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL). At least 10 calls were made to the Israeli authorities that afternoon to indicate that Israeli shelling was getting closer to the UN position at Khiyam.

This position, where a Canadian and three other unarmed military observers were later killed, has been well-known to the Israeli army for many years and was clearly marked. The Israelis gave express assurances that UN personnel would be spared. Reports received also showed 21 hits within 300 metres, 12 within 100 metres and four direct hits.

Mr. MacKenzie says that the Canadian observer sent messages implying that "we have Hezbollah fighters all over our position engaging the IDF and using us as shields." This report was sent a full week before the post came under fire. On the day in question, the monitors certainly didn't report that Hezbollah was "all over" their position, or using them as shields. Nor did any of them imply this in any way.

Mr. MacKenzie's extraordinary claim flies in the face of overwhelming available evidence to the contrary. And it does not honour the memory of Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, who was just one example of Canada's proud contribution to peacekeeping.