Death Penalty

[Jay]

With Homolka in the news again, these sorts of things always bring up the death penalty, and mixed feelings.

If there is an old thread on this subject already, I apologize, but I would like to hear views from Canadians, and non-Canadians alike around here, about their feelings on the subject.

I will start.

I am pro death penalty for capital crimes such as murder in the first degree and rape (for repeat offenders). I feel that rehabilitation has its purposes in the “criminal justice system”, but under these crimes it isn’t warranted because of the nature of the offences.
I don’t care about deterrent as the motivation for allowing these types of sentences to exist, as I’m more concerned with the idea of justice, and to me justice in these circumstances is not having to deal with those types of offenders (for 25 years and the money associated with it) and the satisfaction of knowing they don’t exist anymore and neither will the next people who commit these crimes.

Of course I support the appeal process, and I do not wish for the not guilty to be put to death for crimes they simply did not commit, and I would like to see steps included that cut that risk to nil.

 

[no1important]

I do not support it generally, but I would not shed a tear if it was brought back for the likes of Holmolka, Bernardo, Clifford Olsen and Willy Pickton and I am sure there are others. But there really is not much evidence to support it being a deterrent though.

here or here or here

"A number of papers have recently appeared claiming to show that in the United States executions deter serious crime. There are many statistical problems with the data analyses reported. This paper addresses the problem of "influence," which occurs when a very small and atypical fraction of the data dominate the statistical results. The number of executions by state and year is the key explanatory variable, and most states in most years execute no one. A very few states in particular years execute more than 5 individuals. Such values represent about 1% of the available observations. Re-analyses of the existing data are presented showing that claims of deterrence are a statistical artifact of this anomalous 1%."

 

[Jay]

Well the poll thing didn't work out as intended....

 

[Reverend Blair]

Killing is wrong. Not really that complicated.

There is also our long record of imprisoning the innocent.

Then there's the matter of it costing more to carry out a state-sanctioned murder in the US than it does to keep somebody imprisoned for life. That wouldn't be any different up here.

Capital punishment is a bad idea. It's easy to get carried away when we see monsters like Homolka and Picton, but those monsters came from someplace and we'd do way better to keep them around and see what the hell made them. Maybe we can manage not to create as many if we do that.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: RE: Death Penalty

I do not support it generally, but I would not shed a tear if it was brought back for the likes of Holmolka, Bernardo, Clifford Olsen and Willy Pickton and I am sure there are others. But there really is not much evidence to support it being a deterrent though.

I agree with you on that one. It may not be a deterrant, but pragmatically it would save us a heck of a lot of tax money on feeding and confining people of that ilk.

 

[Reverend Blair]

It doesn't save money though, Jo. With all of the appeals and court costs, it costs more to kill somebody than it dopes to keep them in jail.

 

[no1important]

Yes, Rev it could be easy to get carried away but what about the likes of Olsen, Holmolka that are multiple killers and confess?

I would prefer we not have it, because I think state sanctioned killing is wrong. But for Clifford Olsen would not an exception be warrented? But then where does it end? So I dunno.

I do know since I grew up in Lower mainland during Olsens' rampage I still get shivers hearing the name Clifford Olsen.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Who'd off Queen Lizzy?

The thing is that it doesn't just get brought back for Olsen and Homolka. It gets brought back for the plethora of innocents we've convicted. It eventually gets used against those who cannot afford better lawyers. It gets used on the mentally deficient.

Steve Earle has a song called Billy Austin. Listen to that and see if you still feel the same way.

 

[mrmom2]

Kill'em all the bastards

 

[no1important]

Re: RE: Death Penalty

Who'd off Queen Lizzy?

The thing is that it doesn't just get brought back for Olsen and Homolka. It gets brought back for the plethora of innocents we've convicted. It eventually gets used against those who cannot afford better lawyers. It gets used on the mentally deficient.

Steve Earle has a song called Billy Austin. Listen to that and see if you still feel the same way.

No one would off Lizzy, I would hope.

Too many innocents would be executed, if it was brought back full or part time. 1 innocent killed is too many, thats why we are better off not to have it. It is better to be safe than sorry. But still on a personnel level, I would like to see Olsen. Bernardo et al hung.

Look at Illinois a while back. They had 13 innocent people on death row. here or here

 

[Reverend Blair]

You can't bring it back on a case by case basis though. If it comes back it will be for everybody convicted of a certain level of crime.

On a personal level I'd like to string up the guy across the street. So what? The law has to be the same for everybody, so we have no death penalty.

 

[Toro]

I've never underrstood why the same conservatives who tell you how inefficient and fat and lazy the government is can turn around and tell you that the government is ruthlessly efficient when it comes to justice. The government cannot deliver the mail, but it can, without doubt, determine who lives and who dies. There is nothing more big government than the death penalty. We should always err on the side of caution. It is better that a guilty person walk than an innocent person die. I'm against the death penalty.

 

[The Philosopher]

I disagree with the death penalty being used in a democratic society. Fear mechanisms should not be used by the government, it is anti-democratic. Although they are trying to deter criminals for acting any type of punishment ends up detering EVERYONE from doing things.

People are not supposed to fear breaking the law they are supposed to respect the law. The best example of this is drivers. You have people who respect the law who drive casually. Then you have people who fear the law, they drive as fast as they can, but never over it, always looking to make sure they are over it.

If capitol punishment is the ultimate form of a deterrent then it should be the FIRST thing to be removed. Deterrents do not deter criminals they only deter people from being democratic.

I am all for life sentences for truly absurd and rehabilitation for others who can be saved.

 

[Twila]

I'm all for the death penalty for convicted Serial rapists/ killers.

I'm all for no route to appeal for those particular individuals. I have no interest in deterring them. My only interest is in removing them from society and removing their ability to enjoy the crimes they've committed. I abhor the idea of them sitting in solitary reliving their crimes with enjoyment. I abhor taxes being spent on their "confinement".

No1. I hear the Clifford STILL writes letters to the families of his victims.....it seems it's with in his rights to do so........

 

[missile]

There has never been one case of a death penalty being carried out and the offender killing again. Bring the death penalty back and speed up the execution process-one appeal allowed. The other bad joke in our legal system is the Young Offenders Act;also,that should be abolished.

 

[Reverend Blair]

[sarcasm]Yeah, and we should bring back floggings. Especially for recalcitrant workers and women of ill repute. We'll learn them. [/sarcasm]

 

[Jo Canadian]

I'm all for the death penalty for convicted Serial rapists/ killers.

I'm all that for the actual convicted (without a doubt) killers. But if a serial rapist that hasn't killed anyone should just be forced to sterilize his goods and become a Eunich.

 

[missile]

Re: The young offenders Act. I want to see their names printed. Why protect the little darlings when every kid in town knows who they are ,but not the general public?

 

[Twila]

Jo Canadian. THink that'd work? Serial rapists are not doing it because they enjoy rough sex. I think that whether or not their equipment worked they'd still feel the need to sexually degrade. humiliate. and hurt others......how about we just opt for frontal labotomy or remove some of the innocent animals from the labs and replace them with these people........

 

[MMMike]

Re: RE: Death Penalty

Who'd off Queen Lizzy?

The thing is that it doesn't just get brought back for Olsen and Homolka. It gets brought back for the plethora of innocents we've convicted. It eventually gets used against those who cannot afford better lawyers. It gets used on the mentally deficient.

Steve Earle has a song called Billy Austin. Listen to that and see if you still feel the same way.

8O Actually agree with Rev here. I have no problem with the thought of capital punishment. In fact, I think the likes of Bernardo & Homolka deserve a slow, painful death. You can't make up laws on a case by case basis. To support the death penalty you have to accept that innocent people will die, and that the death penalty will be disporportionately applied to poor black men with bad lawyers.

I used to support capital punishment whole heartedly until I read that book by Barry Sheck (?) on the Innocence project. A real eye-opener!