Dear Reverend Blair,

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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I don't agree, Paco...The phrase you use is now being used by US soldiers who break into people's homes in the middle of the night and arrest people for the crime of being Iraqi. I've seen it on television and I'm guessing you have too.

Actually it was not. It was a shot at all Canadians. I am jingoistic in my love of my country. It was retaliation for what I perceive to be stupidity.

Jingoism is nothing to be proud of, Paco. In the context of your post, I took it very much to be directed at me though.

You want to say George Bush made a mistake in choosing Iraq as a battleground, fine. I can discuss that. What I cannot abide is some moron that claims my country is murdering innocents. When you make that kind of accusation, expect an attack from me.

Quit murdering innocents and you'll quit hearing the accusation. The fact is that the US has been very heavy-handed in Iraq and elsewhere. In Iraq it has caused the death of 100,000 people, mostly civilians. Because of the munitions your country chose to use the deaths will continue for decades.



I wanted to discuss your opinion of the term “Baghdad Bob.” You claim it has evolved into a racial epithet. I humbly said, “Fair enough” please explain the evolution of the term.

I did explain, quite a few posts ago now. If you want me trace back how it changed...sorry I'm not in a position to go to Iraq and do the research. I am in a position to see the way it is used now though. So are you, assuming you have a television and channels that run footage uncensored.

I started this whole post to discuss what is a racial epithet with you. You have avoided the discussion. Something you accuse me of doing, then do yourself.

I've avoided nothing, Paco.

Changing direction to the Condi/signature subject was simply a point of hypocrisy.

Your hypocrisy, not mine. You don't like the song? You don't understand what it's saying? Trying to say that Earle is sexist and racist for writing it or that I am for using a line or two requires some pretty purposeful misinterpretation of the song and it's meaning.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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Re: RE: Dear Reverend Blair,

Rick van Opbergen said:
Well statistically speaking, I think the majority of the 6 million people in this world don't have an opinion about this.

Everyone as an opinion but not all of them live in a democracy where they can voice their opinion. Another situation is that some people are either afraid or coerced to not offer an opinion.
 

LadyC

Time Out
Sep 3, 2004
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Holy, people. Take a breather.

My opinions, if anyone cares....

1. To me, "Baghdad Bob" is now the same as calling someone a liar. It doesn't mean any specific race of people. On other forums, it is fired off at anyone who is deemed to be exaggerating to the point of outright lying.

2. Playing the race card? I only learned a few days ago that Moghrabi is of Lebanese descent. We're all anonymous here on the internet - if we don't disclose our race/sex/whatever, we can't complain later when we perceive an insult.

3. Even though a few people pointed out the inappropriateness of Moghrabi's "suicide" comment, no further action was taken by a mod or admin. this appeared to be tacit approval. If you're going to censor some posts, censor them all. And no fair calling them "edits" either. We edit our own posts for spelling or clarity. The mods censor them.

4. I want to stress again that I took the Baghdad Bob comment as Paco intended. I doubt I'm the only one.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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LadyC. Thank you for your input. I do have to apologize for my "Suicide" comment as it came out under the heat of the moment. As for Paco's Baghdad Bob comment, I really do not give a damn what he means by it. I have my opinion and I am entitled to post it. If he thinks I am a liar, that is his choice.

As for my race/religion. I am very proud of it as Paco is of being American. I never hide my identity nor I complained that I was a target of racial hate. No need too. I know this is the Internet but I have nothing to fear or hide as long as I am a firm believer of I stand for. I have been in this country for a long time and I learned to speak my mind. I am not going to be silenced by Paco or anyone who opposes my ideas.

Let's keep rolling....
 

LadyC

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Sep 3, 2004
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As for my race/religion. I am very proud of it as Paco is of being American. I never hide my identity nor I complained that I was a target of racial hate.
No, I don't think you did. We're all very proud of our heritage, but I think too many of us are overly concerned with potentially offending others that we tend to see more than what was intended. I got taken to task once for mentioning my "Norski" cousins - by someone with nary a drop of Scandinavian blood.

Since we seem to have exhausted this topic, maybe I can voice my own complaint.

I don't like the title of this topic. I don't think the Rev is "dear" at all.

But that's just my opinion.
;)
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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I never started this thread nor I can change the name of it. May I ask you why Rev is not dear. I certainly enjoy his commentary and feedback, his sense of humor.


But that's just my opinion.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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Wosh. You scared me there. I thought the Rev was this beast that everyone is running away from. I wish I couldsay the same (cute as a button). He might think I am in love with him. LOL
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,643
128
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Re: RE: Dear Reverend Blair,

LadyC said:
3. Even though a few people pointed out the inappropriateness of Moghrabi's "suicide" comment, no further action was taken by a mod or admin. this appeared to be tacit approval. If you're going to censor some posts, censor them all. And no fair calling them "edits" either. We edit our own posts for spelling or clarity. The mods censor them.

LadyC: The mods don't censor posts as you're charging. If we censored posts, the post would have been outright removed. The majority of the post, Reverend Blair obviously didn't agree with. Was it removed and did he remove anything he thought was offensive without noting that in the post? Certain sections of certain posts may be edited if there's anything racist/abnoxiously offensive/spammish/whatever the case may be.

Censorship is filtering TV broadcasts before they go live. Censorship it outright deleting full posts just because someone doesn't agree with it.

To be completely honest, I know exactly what moghrabi is always posting about and I don't spend all of my time reading every single one of his posts. There are hundreds of posts per day now on this board and the biggest problem I have is kicking out the spammers who register to post a incest/kiddie porn URL in their profile so it will get spidered by the search engines!

Which is why after all of this, everybody can help moderate the forum and report anything illegal/racist/abnoxiously offense by clicking the REPORT button below the post.

If you see something that shouldn't be there, then make yourself heard.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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I don't like the title of this topic. I don't think the Rev is "dear" at all.

May I ask you why Rev is not dear.

I'm gonna go with Lady C on that.

I'm sure the Rev is as cute as a button.

I'm not gonna go with her on that. 8O

1. To me, "Baghdad Bob" is now the same as calling someone a liar. It doesn't mean any specific race of people. On other forums, it is fired off at anyone who is deemed to be exaggerating to the point of outright lying.

As I said, I've seen it used by American troops in what is very much a racist way. I will continue to interpret it in that light.

Calling somebody a liar can be very much a personal attack as well though, depending on context. In the context of the post we're discussing and similar things posted by Paco in the past, I still would have deleted it.
 

LadyC

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Sep 3, 2004
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Sorry, Andem. I disagree. The Rev censored the post because of perceived racism. Yes, he made a note that the post had been "editted", but in my opinion that was worse. When I read that originally, I filled in potential racist remarks and I'm sorry to say it made me think less of Paco. When I later found out what the original comment was -

I'll say again - Whatever the Rev wants to read into the comment, few if any of us would see that as a racist remark.

Censor, edit. Either way - it'a all in how you perceive it.

For the record, I also agree with Paco re: "Skank for me Condi". I'm not familiar with the song, so I read it as very sexist... like the old belief that the only way a woman could get to the top was by sleeping with the boss.

I find the word "skank" to be offensive, along the lines of sl*t or the "c" word.
 

LadyC

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Sep 3, 2004
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the Rev said:
Calling somebody a liar can be very much a personal attack as well though, depending on context.
Agreed. It's amazing how some people don't see that though. I've called people's integrity into question and called them liars (they were, in fact, lying). In retaliation they called me ugly.

I think I won those rounds.
:D
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
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38
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Well let me in a little here. The Rev censored the name "Baghdad Bob" meaning a liar or anything this person says is a lie. However, if you look at Paco's original message he insulted billions of people (Arabs/moslems) by saying that they still live in their feces.

I did not make anything of it and I went after Paco. I am still being blamed for the suicide word I used although I did apologize for it but no one on this forum suggested censoring the feces part from Paco's.

I think the Rev can do so much and I did think he did the right thing. So let it rest at this.
 

LadyC

Time Out
Sep 3, 2004
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Ah... context. Isn't that exactly what paco said regarding his comment?

Honestly, I don't need to buy the album to understand the context. I understood your explanation perfectly.

Still don't like the word. I'd be extremely insulted if someone called me that.

I guess that would be the point though, wouldn't it?
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,643
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Larnaka
Then it's good we have it here in a topic and openly discussing it. Moderators are humans, you know. Until I make a program to catch these things, humans will have to do :)

One person will see it as offensive and the other will not. There's no getting around that except by discussing it. Atleast we all have a clear understanding and are able to take our own positions. That's whats great about this forum.


Maybe we should start an open rant forum open to members only?
 

LadyC

Time Out
Sep 3, 2004
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However, if you look at Paco's original message he insulted billions of people (Arabs/moslems) by saying that they still live in their feces.

I did not make anything of it and I went after Paco. I am still being blamed for the suicide word I used although I did apologize for it but no one on this forum suggested censoring the feces part from Paco's.
Yes, you did make something of it. It wasn't till I read your later posts that I went back looking for his original comment. Granted, I don't read all the posts every day.

But you're comparing apples to oranges. The "feces" comment was deserving of "editing", the Baghdad Bob one, in my opinion, wasn't the same. You can't edit one post on the evidence of another.

But you're right. I think this topic is pretty much exhausted.