Dad, would you, could you?

[CDNBear]

I had no idea where to post this, but I thought this might be the appropriate are.

My sons were watching marvellous piece of Hollywood crap. Behind enemy lines II, when my oldest stopped the movie and came into my office and asked if I could watch something in it with him.

I of course did,,,

He qued the scene, he wanted my opinion on. A group of Navy Seals hunkered down in cover, hiding from NK soldiers. A NK child happens to stroll upon their position, trying to catch a mouse. The Seals have to make a life or death decission. Pacify the target or risk being caught and having to engage the NK troops, if the child sees them.

My son, who just so happens to be left leaning(LOL), asked me the hardest question he has ever asked, I found it easier to discuss sex ed. with him then this, "Dad, would you have killed the kid?", "Could you have killed the kid?"

I stood stunned, what he was asking me, could very well change the image he has of me. For a teenager, it's a preety good image and we have an excellent relationship. But I didn't want to lie to him.

So, I told him the truth.

"Yes, I could, and would. The safety of my men, they objective of the mission, is paramount. I would have assessed the sitution, weighed my options and acted accordingly. If that ment neutralising a potential threat, then so beit. I would not hesitate, he who hesitates, dies. I would live with the demons later, but yes, yes I would, yes I could." I answered, with tears in my eyes.

The look on his face, was complete shock. I asked him then, if that changed his image of me or how he felt about that. His answer shocked me. "Dad" He said, "I thought so." He added. I then asked why he was so shocked then. He told me,"I didn't think you would want me to know that." Was his answer. I asked him, "So do you see me differently now?", "No, I've seen you with your Army buddies. You guys act like me and Coda, so I know you would do whatever you had to do to save them, it's scary though Dad" Was his reply.

I'm not sure why this has effected me so.

 

[Curiosity]

CDNBear

Bear - you are weighing this with your beloved son in a situation of homelife, recreational activity and peace. Honesty is the best answer you can give your children.

War separates our minds into different places - different causes and different responses. One has nothing to do with the other. But given a different set of circumstances as follows:

You would not hesitate to kill an attacker who breaks into your home and injures your family would you?
You are in the protector modality when you have the capacity to kill or maim or stop aggression. This does not make you a killer in real life. Killers have totally different goals than protection of family.

Those who cannot bear the stress of decision-making by killing another would have a totally different outlook on their reaction. Fortunately many who would hesitate never join an armed forces situation or have training in combat.

And your son - for obvious reasons - has no personal frame of reference regarding protection in combat or at home. I hope he never has to weigh the decision...ever.

 

[CDNBear]

CDNBear

Bear - you are weighing this with your beloved son in a situation of homelife, recreational activity and peace. Honesty is the best answer you can give your children.

War separates our minds into different places - different causes and different responses. One has nothing to do with the other. But given a different set of circumstances as follows:

You would not hesitate to kill an attacker who breaks into your home and injures your family would you?
You are in the protector modality when you have the capacity to kill or maim or stop aggression. This does not make you a killer in real life. Killers have totally different goals than protection of family.

Those who cannot bear the stress of decision-making by killing another would have a totally different outlook on their reaction. Fortunately many who would hesitate never join an armed forces situation or have training in combat.

And your son - for obvious reasons - has no personal frame of reference regarding protection in combat or at home. I hope he never has to weigh the decision...ever.

He sees me as scary, now. My wife has known for years, that emotionaly, I can turn it off and on at will, depending on the situation. In this case, it hurts, to know he thinks I'm scary, or my actions would be. He understands the "Band of Brothers" mentality, he understands that things happen in war, that change people forever. I have never sheltered him from the truth about war, I have never told him about my participation in war like situations, but I have never hidden the costs. He is a Cadet, and has plans on being a fighter pilot. He is a great kid. I know he still loves me, that wouldn't change, but I've always been his hero, I'm worried that's changed now. How would you even ask?

 

[Curiosity]

Bear

Keep the door to dialogue open with your son - even on a casual basis when discussing his cadet training...

Create an atmosphere of "ask me any time" so there are no hidden things which will give your son room to
make up his own non-reality instead of the truth.

Kids have amazing fantasy lives and some times it is best that they feel ok asking you questions - even if you dislike having to give him the answers....

Wow what a responsibility.... that's a fine line...but you know your son and what he can handle....might help you sort out things too.... don't be afraid to show him your own feelings whatever they may be...

 

[Sassylassie]

Great advice to Bear Curio. Bear if you son plans on being a "Fighter Pilot" the very question he posed to you will be asked of him someday, not by you but someone in command will ask him to Possibly drop a bomb on a suspect target. Ask him how he's react if an enemy force is attacking Canadian Soldiers and he was called in to do an Air Strike, would he be able to do his job knowing innocents may be killed?

Bear I would of answered the question exactly as you did, when the lives of your men are at stake they are your main objective. Many countries use children as decoys to distroy their supposed enemy, look at Hamas.

 

[CDNBear]

Thanx,

We have a great relationship, but there are things in my past, both military and civilian, that I'm not sure I could explain away to him. He is open, and yes he really does lean to the left. He still thinks Trudeau was a great leader, lol. I have never stopped him from learning all he can, from all perspectives. I have done everything in my power to have him experience all types of religion, food and ethnic diversities. I think he like the military because of the long tradition in our family, I think he may have chosen the Air Force, because it is detached from facing the enemy. He has always been the phylosopher in th ehouse, and is deep in so many ways. I'm not sure he has ever pictured me killing someone. He doesn't seem to be effected in any relivant way.

My greatest fear has always been, letting either of them down. If this raises more questions about my past, I'm not sure if I could answer them, easily and without fear of changing his views of me and the military in general.

 

[Sassylassie]

Bear you are human and your children need to know that. My father was my best buddy and he fell many times along the way and I loved him more for it not less. Respect isn't something that blows away like a puff of wind, we all fall down it's how we get back up that defines us. You have done well.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Good for you, Bear. No child has ever asked me a question as difficult as that one. I have no experience of such matters and have no idea how I'd answer it, or even if I could. You had to tell the boy the truth, even if he now sees you as being a little scary. If he's going to be a fighter pilot, he's likely going to have to face life and death choices like that himself, today's world being what it is, so he has to know where his dad is on it. Besides, if you hadn't told him the truth, he'd have known it, and then you'd really have lost some of his respect. Better he should find you a little alarming than not worthy of respect. One thing parents absolutely must not do is lie to their children if they wish to retain their respect and affection.

Best wishes to you and yours, Bear. You did right.

 

[CDNBear]

Good for you, Bear. No child has ever asked me a question as difficult as that one. I have no experience of such matters and have no idea how I'd answer it, or even if I could. You had to tell the boy the truth, even if he now sees you as being a little scary. If he's going to be a fighter pilot, he's likely going to have to face life and death choices like that himself, today's world being what it is, so he has to know where his dad is on it. Besides, if you hadn't told him the truth, he'd have known it, and then you'd really have lost some of his respect. Better he should find you a little alarming than not worthy of respect. One thing parents absolutely must not do is lie to their children if they wish to retain their respect and affection.

Best wishes to you and yours, Bear. You did right.

Wow, Thanx Dex.

I look back at my first silly salvos here, and you were my target. To which I must say, I'm sorry. My impressions of you were all wrong. Thanx again.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I look back at my first silly salvos here, and you were my target. To which I must say, I'm sorry. My impressions of you were all wrong. Thanx again.

Yeah, I think I suspected that at some level, but unlike a few posters here and elsewhere, you're obviously bright and articulate enough to be worth taking seriously, and some of us old guys can read between the lines a bit. No harm done, and thanks for that very graceful apology, though it really wasn't necessary. You're clearly one of the good guys.

 

[feronia]

I know I don't know you well and I'm as leftist as it gets but my two cents are that the best gift any parent can give is one of honesty. Even if it is possible that you leave yourself open to changing your current relationship with your child (although from what I'm reading your child is quite bright and you are doing a superb job as a parent). You did the honest and honorable thing and we all can learn from your example of parenting. Thank you.

 

[BitWhys]

ah

the patina of false morality...

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." - Mark 16:25

"You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant" - Arlo Guthrie

 

[Curiosity]

BitWhys


8/18/2006 08:47:00

RE: RE: N'Dippers Lose Buzz

Message:
I'm usually willing to stoop to help a child when I get the opportunity but in your case I've decided to make an exception.

BitWhys

I see your message of this type concerning children is a theme you adopt quite often. Your collection of
works in other places allows us to see you for what you are.

Sarcastic insult regarding another poster's clear-cut quandry regarding his son was honest and was treated as such. Seems you have little experience with care, concern and genuine parenting.

I cannot post what I would like to respond with.

 

[BitWhys]

...Sarcastic insult regarding another poster's clear-cut quandry regarding his son was honest and was treated as such...

It was bull**** with blinders on, as is the premise of your personal attack.

good at holding grudges, are we? good for you.

 

[feronia]

ah

the patina of false morality...

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." - Mark 16:25

"You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant" - Arlo Guthrie

I like the one about. "To thy own self be true".

 

[BitWhys]

I like the one about. "To thy own self be true".

I like the one about being born at a very early age but that doesn't shed any light on the matter either.

 

[feronia]

If you explain your meaning a little more clearer I might understand you . The quote I made was to all parents. The greatest gift you can give to a child is to model the lesson of truth and honesty at all times, even if is a little uncomfortable. I don't call that false morality at all. I call that a way of life.

 

[BitWhys]

If you explain your meaning a little more clearer I might understand you . The quote I made was to all parents. The greatest gift you can give to a child is to model the lesson of truth and honesty at all times, even if is a little uncomfortable. I don't call that false morality at all. I call that a way of life.

confession in the absence of contrition is little more than boasting

 

[Sassylassie]

feronia wrote: If you explain your meaning a little more clearer I might understand you . The quote I made was to all parents. The greatest gift you can give to a child is to model the lesson of truth and honesty at all times, even if is a little uncomfortable. I don't call that false morality at all. I call that a way of life.

That is wonderful, thanks for sharing it.

Bitways as always you are unpleasent and rude to posters.

 

[BitWhys]

...Bitways as always you are unpleasent and rude to posters.

thanks for the tip, mom. as usual you're too busy crying wolf to deal with it. its not my fault the truth hurts.