Conservatives not interested with Aboriginal Rights

[Triple_R]

With all due respect, it's about time that the vast majority of aboriginal Canadians started fully integrating into the broader Canadian society, and stopped wanting the Canadian government to honour obsolete land agreements signed well over a hundred years ago. We need to move forward people. We have to stop catering to the mentality within some aboriginals to maintain a subculture that is largely cut off from the rest of Canada. We need to more strongly encourage integration, and fight povery/unemployment on a broad basis, and not on an ethnic/racial one.

The aboriginals in Canada are suffering due to lack of integration; due to a lack of willingness to become a integrated part of the broader Canadian society. In the U.S., the aboriginals have integrated into the broader American society, and have made much entreprenurial gains through their casinos, and free market enterprising. The aboriginals in America are fairly well off right now due to their willingness to integrate.

Nothing will hurt a minority group moreso than an unwillingness to integrate within the broader society - and by that, I simply mean adhereing to the social norms and values of the day, and seeking to work within the system as oppossed to against the system.

They are working in the system to get what is rightfully theres.

The Federal government, liberal and conservative have tried for Canada's history to integrate aboriginals into its society, through means that you could classify as simple assimilation to the attempt at cultural genocide and annihilation.

That didn't work, integrating into a mainstream culture that is different then your didn't work.

Now through court cases and other means they are trying to get at resources and land that was stolen from them by the Canadian government many years ago.

Once they are able to get at these resources then they will be fine, stop putting them down and placing restrictions.

Integration my ass.

The aboriginals in the US had their land "stolen" from them as well. It's called losing a war (literal, or proverbial). I'm sorry, but if we have to pay back everybody who has ever lost a war, that would be a counter-productive never-ending reperations game.

There's a difference between integration, and assimiliation. Nobody is saying that the aboriginals can't maintain their cultural heritage. Just as we have Sikhs wearing religious head dresses through out their working day, I have no problem with aboriginals doing whatever they feel like they need to do to honour their cultural heritage.

By "wroking within the system", I merely mean... go to school, get a good education, and pursue good jobs. That's what most of the rest of us have to do to get ahead in this world.

Nobody is going to job discriminate against qualified native workers. If anything, they'll get an added push from government. But the thing is that the aboriginals need to take responsibility for themselves, and actually go out and pursue good jobs. Some have, of course, and I tip my hat to them. They are forward-looking, instead of wanting to dreg up ancient history that does them, the Canadian government, and the Canadian society, no good at all.

 

[winniethepooh]

Re: RE: Conservatives not int

I don't think the

http://www.davidorchard.com/online/media-2004/flannagan-walrus-macdonald-200410xx.html

Flanagan doesn't 'have it in for Aboriginals'. Like many others he is just tired of this endless money pit that does nothing to improve conditions for natives. He is just tired of the status quo. Right? Wrong? I'd still take his fresh thinking over the Liberals' unwillingness to make unpopular decisions.

Exactly. Maybe if aboriginals became full and equal citizens their conditions would improve. Apartheid doesn't work, it wasn't okay in Africa, why should it be okay in Canada.

We give billions yearly to the natives, where does it go, where is the accountability, and why does it not improve their conditions?

 

[Triple_R]

Re: RE: Conservatives not int

I don't think the

http://www.davidorchard.com/online/media-2004/flannagan-walrus-macdonald-200410xx.html

Flanagan doesn't 'have it in for Aboriginals'. Like many others he is just tired of this endless money pit that does nothing to improve conditions for natives. He is just tired of the status quo. Right? Wrong? I'd still take his fresh thinking over the Liberals' unwillingness to make unpopular decisions.

Exactly. Maybe if aboriginals became full and equal citizens their conditions would improve.

Exactly. We should have more aboriginals in Parliament, but aboriginals themselves should become full and equal citizens, eschewing aboriginal governments that simply have failed to help their people.

 

[Jersay]

So they give up any form of self-government great.

They were before Canadians. Now on a military level, the Native people were just as strong as the Europeans, look at the Pontiac Rebellion of 1760-63, through the use of biological warfare did the Europeans win.

If you give them back their land they will have resources, give them royalties to the land you will have resourceful and rich native people.

Say, okay your Canadians, but you have 80% of your people in poverty, a small minority that goes to college or university, to have teen suicide, you will be equal to us is a bunch of crap.

Immigrants as well are the same, at some places they have 40 to 60% of their population under the poverty line and discriminated against for jobs.

So don't give me that. In the community I live in, it is the largest university where Native People go, 12% of the adult population go to University here, Native, highest in the country, but do they get jobs, No. Only if there is a spot free at the University, no one will hire them anywhere else.

 

[Jersay]

I don't think the Aboriginals should expect much from Harper. This is a bit of a long read but good for some insights. BTW Marci McDonald is no Liberal Crony, I believe she is the first one to tear one off Paul Martin over his Foreign Registered ships. This piece is about one of Stephen Harpers main strategists. Called the Man Behind Stephen Harper. He seems to really have it in for Aboriginals.

http://www.davidorchard.com/online/media-2004/flannagan-walrus-macdonald-200410xx.html

Good post, shows what the 'new' conservatives will be like. Hopefully, the native people will be a thorn in their side all the way.

 

[Jay]

I can just see Ipperwash starting all over again, on the federal level,

Are you aware of somthing in the works?

 

[Jersay]

Are you aware of somthing in the works?

Well there are plans somewhere in Canada, that a Native group for the past year has blocked the routes of a mining company that wants to get into the area to see how much minerals there are. I believe its Northern B.C. or Yukon.

It hasn't been violent yet, but the cops have been called twice when people started waving weapons.

And the Haida on the Queen Charlotte. With the Conservatives, buddies with Big business, I am sure that they wouldn't be interested in negotiation.

I really got a bad feeling.

 

[the caracal kid]

interesting Jersay,

perhaps it really is a case of canada is lazy it will take Native American Revolution to see their issues resolved. The "dumb white man" has it coming to him too for years of segregation, debasing, theft, etc.

If the NAs and Quebec have had enough, boy are a lot of people going to be in for a surprise.

 

[Jersay]

Yeah, I know what you mean. But the funny thing is, the Canadian government or provincial government enjoys sending out the military to deal with the Native problems, and I don't want to be shot at by a people that I agree whole heartedly with on their demands. Maybe not their actions, but their demands.

 

[cyberclark]

In Fort Chipiwan in Alberta a settlement was reached. Every man woman and child got several thousands of dollars to sign off.
Amost immediately every applicance salesman in the province was looking for a place to stay in Fort Chip.

A month passed; a heap of old appliances and beds that looked like a small mountain and every body was broke!

Its called keeping the money moving.

 

[Jersay]

In Fort Chipiwan in Alberta a settlement was reached. Every man woman and child got several thousands of dollars to sign off.
Amost immediately every applicance salesman in the province was looking for a place to stay in Fort Chip.

A month passed; a heap of old appliances and beds that looked like a small mountain and every body was broke!

Its called keeping the money moving.

:?:

 

[Freethinker]

I don't think the Aboriginals should expect much from Harper. This is a bit of a long read but good for some insights. BTW Marci McDonald is no Liberal Crony, I believe she is the first one to tear one off Paul Martin over his Foreign Registered ships. This piece is about one of Stephen Harpers main strategists. Called the Man Behind Stephen Harper. He seems to really have it in for Aboriginals.

http://www.davidorchard.com/online/media-2004/flannagan-walrus-macdonald-200410xx.html

Good post, shows what the 'new' conservatives will be like. Hopefully, the native people will be a thorn in their side all the way.

For those too lazy too read, Flannagan has other great ideas like scrapping medicare and replacing it with individual medical savings accounts.

These guys are strict neocons,regardless slick moderate image they have managed to sell this time around, there is only the "every man for himself" idealogy running through the upper eschelons of the conservative party. Flannagan is essentially Harpers, Karl Rove.

 

[Jay]

Fine, were neo-cons and you guys are communists. Now that we all know that, lets move on.

 

[Calberty]

This is a tremendous opportunity for the native population if they can pull it togeather!

The aborigine population is the single largest race group in Canada!

If they could turn out the vote they could put into parliment any party of their choosing!

Of course, turning out the vote is the holy grail for every one!

?????

Natives aren't all lemmings who think the same way. Do white people all have the same aspirations and vote for the same party? Are you all voting Green Party like me? Natives are as diverse and individual as anyone else.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Conservatives not interested with Aboriginal Rights

Fine, were neo-cons and you guys are communists. Now that we all know that, lets move on.

:lol:

 

[Freethinker]

Re: RE: Conservatives not interested with Aboriginal Rights

Fine, were neo-cons and you guys are communists. Now that we all know that, lets move on.

Are you a member of Stephen Harper's Inner circle, which is what I was referring to? I am a communist because I think Stephen Harper is at the extreme right wing? I don't believe that anyone who votes for Stephen Harper thinks exactly like he does. I do think Stephen Harper is an extreme right wing idealogue, I think Paul Martin is a typical social-democrat in his ideology. I also think Paul Martin is a man past his day that should certainly resign after this election. But I will be voting for him simply because the liberal idealogy is closer to my own than the conservative one. Neither one matches exactly. We all vote what we consider the lesser of evils.

ne·o·con·ser·va·tism also ne·o-con·ser·va·tism
An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the perceived liberalism of the 1960s: “The neo-conservatism of the 1980s is a replay of the New Conservatism of the 1950s, which was itself a replay of the New Era philosophy of the 1920s” (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.).

com·mu·nism
1. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.
2. Communism
1. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.
2. The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat.

I would say neocon is not that strong a term and close to accurate, while communist is just insult hurling.

 

[Jay]

Of course.



"A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people. "


Sounds strikingly like the Liberal party and there aspirations.

 

[Jersay]

Phil Fontaine has asked for most aboriginal people to vote for the NDP. I am sure some are going to vote differently. It is only fair, but hopefully they are aware of what the Conservatives might try to do.