Chew this one over for me

[unclepercy]

Letter Demands Equal Treatment for Muslim Prayer in TX Schools

Now remember, Christians are not allowed to pray in public school. The only prayer that is said - is the one before an athletic event in a stadium. Is it right for Muslims to expect favoritism? I say no.

Here is the article:

Letter Demands Equal Treatment for Muslim Prayer in TX Schools

Nov 8, 2005

On November 8, 2005, The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty wrote principal Dave Casey at L.V. Berkner High School in Richardson, Texas to demand that he immediately “cease and desist from [the] school’s illegal decision to punish Muslim students” for exercising their right to pray.

The school’s policy fails to accommodate Muslim students’ constitutionally guaranteed prayer rights. Under the policy, Muslim students are given the choice of praying and facing discipline, or foregoing their religious beliefs altogether. Other students have been told that they may pray during their lunch period, but only if they are willing to skip lunch and go hungry.

“Absent a decision by the School to cease and desist from its unlawful activities, we will be forced to pursue litigation to vindicate the constitutional and statutory rights of our clients and other Muslim students at Berkner,” said Derek Gaubatz, Director of Litigation for The Becket Fund.

http://www.becketfund.org/index.php/article/453.html

Uncle

 

[TenPenny]

Well, clearly the school is not preventing the students from praying, they can pray at lunch.

Nuff said.

 

[Nascar_James]

Hah ... that is a good one. It is so ridiculous as to not be taken seriously.

If we Christians/Catholics are not permitted to pray in public school and we comprise 85% of the US population, why should the muslim community be given preferential treatment given they only comprise a mear 0.5% of the US population. That's too funny.

That's equivalent to me heading to say Bahrain and demanding that I be allowed to pray in public school. I guess if I had a death wish, I could consider doing just that.

 

[Hard-Luck Henry]

Hah ... that is a good one. It is so ridiculous as to not be taken seriously.

That's quite incisive, Nascar. Well done.

 

[zenfisher]

That is exactly why it is important that there is no prayer in schools. If you allow one it is favouritism. That elevates one group of a society above another. In flies in the face of equality. If they want to pray they can do it before they come to school or off school property. It is the only fair way to maintain it.

 

[unclepercy]

Re: RE: Chew this one over for me

That is exactly why it is important that there is no prayer in schools. If you allow one it is favouritism. That elevates one group of a society above another. In flies in the face of equality. If they want to pray they can do it before they come to school or off school property. It is the only fair way to maintain it.

I agree totally. But the Muslims do not agree. And you know they have a different way of looking at things, so I guess we will see what the court decides.

Uncle

 

[GL Schmitt]

. . . Under the policy, Muslim students are given the choice of praying and facing discipline, or foregoing their religious beliefs altogether. . .

The line of demarcation should be between the school initiating prayer and the school impeding prayer.

Unless the school also forbids all Christian prayer groups to meet on school facilities, the failure to permit Islamic prayer on school property is discriminatory.

This “If I can’t, you ain't a-gonna . . . ” method of enforcement is the result of small-mindedness.

More than a few decades ago, I went to public elementary school in Canada. We did a pledge, but no prayer. If there was a test that a student was ill-prepared for, and he or she was even marginally Christian, no doubt they said a silent prayer.

Meanwhile, although the school continued to teach, any Jewish student absent during a holy day was not marked absent, but they did have to catch up on their own afterwards, without using class time.

I know, because I took notes for my best friend, when he missed a day.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

It's a little hard to tell what the issue's really about from that short message at the link. Muslims are required by the tenets of the faith to pray several times a day--five, I think--at least two of which will occur during school hours. And it's not just a quick little prayer either, something you can do under your breath in a few minutes during a class, it's a 30 minute withdrawal from all other activities to go through a specified series of devotions. It'd take a major readjustment of the daily schedule at school to accommodate that, so resistance from the school authorities is readily understandable.

On the other hand, surely Islam has encountered this before, circumstances in which it's not possible to pray at the prescribed times, and has evolved some workaround, along the lines of "Do it when you can, Allah will understand." I've worked in Egypt, a nominally secular but in reality Muslim state, and there were always some people who twice during the workday, about mid morning and mid afternoon, would shut themselves in an office for half an hour for the prescribed devotions. Nobody said anything about it, it was just accepted as something that some people need to do and we worked around it. And there were others, no less devout but of a different cast of mind, who didn't follow that schedule, and presumably made up the two missed prayer sessions somehow. I never inquired about it, it didn't seem appropriate somehow.

I've also worked in this country for a manager who was a deeply devout Muslim (and the best manager I ever had, by far, but that's another long story). He did not shut himself in his office twice a day, he made a point of having his office door open all the time for his staff, so I presume he'd worked out something that satisfied what he felt his obligations to Allah were. He was also one of the kindest, gentlest, most thoughtful people I've ever dealt with, and he will forever be the face of Islam to me. I will always be grateful for knowing him, because in these days when the news is full of tales of so-called Islamic terrorism, I know from direct personal experience that Islam is not like that at root and those terrorists are perverts. They no more represent Islam than Pat Robertson represents Christianity. One of Islam's important rules is the requirement to respect what it calls the "People of the Book," which means people with a prophetically revealed religion and a written scripture, i.e. Jews and Christians. Anybody care to try explaining how that's consistent with terrorism?

I dunno what the problem or the solution is in Richardson, Texas, but I know we haven't got the whole story. And I know there is a solution.

 

[zenfisher]

Prayers at recess, lunch and recess for younger kids. Breaks between classes for older kids...allow them to be late a few minutes for class. Its not that complicated.

 

[annabattler]

Or,perhaps Texas can allow the establishment of Muslim only schools,where their religious habits can be accomodated.
Naturally,the parents of the Muslim students would pick up all costs of school operation.
In Ontario,there are several such schools...a few are recognized as following the Ontario curriculum...others do not, and there are no "inspections" (and seemingly,no controls)over what goes on within those religious institutions.

 

[pastafarian]

Nascar and UP say Christians are not allowed to pray in schools in the US. I find that hard to believe. I realize there is no group prayer, as well there shouldn't be, but are you guys saying that a child who prays on his/her own time is forbidden to do so?

Or if a group of kids form a Christian Club (instead of, say, a Chess Club) that they'll be forbidden to pray? How can you distinguish between a kid who's praying and a kid who's daydreaming about the cute little girl with pigtails in the second row, unless the praying kid has to make a finger steeple in order to talk to God?

Sounds to me more like more "We Christians are so oppressed" whining as an excuse to stick it to the Muslims.

Surely the school can designate a classroom, part of the gym or library so that students of all faiths can pray when they want to. The Muslims aren't asking to have their prayers said at assembly or anything like that.

When I was at university, one of the departmental libraries which had an East-facing window was used by the Muslim students for prayer. They'd bring in their prayer rugs and do their thing and leave without disturbing anyone. As far as I know, Christians were free to do the same. What's the big deal?

 

[Jay]

Simply change the way the schools are funded and the issue goes away.

 

[TenPenny]

Hah ... that is a good one. It is so ridiculous as to not be taken seriously.

If we Christians/Catholics are not permitted to pray in public school and we comprise 85% of the US population, why should the muslim community be given preferential treatment given they only comprise a mear 0.5% of the US population. That's too funny.

That's equivalent to me heading to say Bahrain and demanding that I be allowed to pray in public school. I guess if I had a death wish, I could consider doing just that.

Since you're obviously an idiot, Nascar, I'll spell this out: Christians are not "not permitted" to pray in public schools. ORGANIZED prayer BY THE SCHOOL is not permitted. There is nothing that prevents a Christian student from praying.

You're so ready to take offense that you don't even understand the difference between individuals wanting to pray, and the school system establishing prayer. There's a big difference.

 

[peapod]

Nope, what he is doing is trying to paint muslims with the same paintbursh. One can barely hide their contempt for his obvious ignorant remarks.

I wouldn't mind hearing the call to pray from the school across the street from where I live. Its quite a haunting, beautiful "human" piece of music.

 

[jimmoyer]

Dexter Sinister was the only calm voice of reason in this thread.

His post is worth re-reading and commenting on again.