Car repari industry 15,000 workers short, and we're in a recession?

[Machjo]

I was watchning CBC news the National last night, and it mentioned that Canada is suffering from a labrour shortage of 15,000 mechanics... now!

One man interviewed has been advertizing for qualified mechanics for 3 months already, and is already starting to consider inviting Europeans to come over!

So instead of bailing industries out, would it not make more sense for the government to let those industries fall and just retrain the laid-off workers to fill labour shortages? Now think about it. If we are short of 15,000 qualified mechanics in the midst of a recession, just imagine how bad that shortage will be when the economy picks up again! So instead of bailing out dinosaurs, the government ought to be researching those areas of the economy that are currently short-staffed and retrain laid-off workers for those jobs.

Alternatively, if the government won't do that, then at least negotiate labour-movement agreements with other countries so that if those countries have qualified mechanics to spare, they can come here. This would be much better than having unemployed mechanics abroad and car repair shops being held back from growing because of overly restrictive visa regulations here. This way, both countries can benefit. Even immigration of qualified mechanics would benefit Canada's economy because these mechanics would need to buy food, clothing, rent or buy shelter, pay taxes, etc., all of which would create spin-off jobs for Canadians while at the same time reduce the cost of car repair. This could also help unemployed Canadians who have skills that might be in short supply abroad.

What is the point of having unemployed mechanics abroad and short-staffed auto repair shops in Canada, while at the same time having unemployed professionas in Canada whose skills are in demand abroad? Through some kind of international labour-movement agreement, maybe through the WTO, we might be able to help each other to bring unemployment rates down internationally by sharing excess labour that other countries might need and vice versa.

What would be your thoughts on either job training to fill labour shortages or international labour-movement agreements?

Personally, I would agree with both and see them as mutually compatible and both beneficial. Your thoughts?

 

[Nuggler]

I'm all for retraining or training Canadians, via whatever means available, apprenticeship programs, community colleges.

But, if that shortage is real, we should be doing it yesterday. As in nurses. Those hoola hoops that Mike Hairass got rid of a few years ago.

I haven't checked the stats, but I would bet there's quite a few trades and professions which could use some trained bodies.

A young friend of mine has almost completed his plumbing apprenticeship, and plans to go to one of the islands off BC.........lots of houses. NO plumbers.

I really feel we should use Canadians first.

So, we probably won't.

go figure.

:-(

 

[VanIsle]

I'm all for retraining or training Canadians, via whatever means available, apprenticeship programs, community colleges.

But, if that shortage is real, we should be doing it yesterday. As in nurses. Those hoola hoops that Mike Hairass got rid of a few years ago.

I haven't checked the stats, but I would bet there's quite a few trades and professions which could use some trained bodies.

A young friend of mine has almost completed his plumbing apprenticeship, and plans to go to one of the islands off BC.........lots of houses. NO plumbers.

I really feel we should use Canadians first.

So, we probably won't.

go figure.

:-(

No Plumbers. I live on Vanc. Is. I constantly see vans advertizing plumbing companies so I don't know where that idea came from. I live mid island where the workers here go up and down the island and across to the smaller islands. I'm not saying there isn't work but I doubt there is a shortage of plumbers or electricians. There is a shortage of skilled labor such as good house framers. Lots of crews who arrive stating they are skilled and then they get fired and the building has to be re-done because they stink at their job.

 

[VanIsle]

I was watchning CBC news the National last night, and it mentioned that Canada is suffering from a labrour shortage of 15,000 mechanics... now!

One man interviewed has been advertizing for qualified mechanics for 3 months already, and is already starting to consider inviting Europeans to come over!

So instead of bailing industries out, would it not make more sense for the government to let those industries fall and just retrain the laid-off workers to fill labour shortages? Now think about it. If we are short of 15,000 qualified mechanics in the midst of a recession, just imagine how bad that shortage will be when the economy picks up again! So instead of bailing out dinosaurs, the government ought to be researching those areas of the economy that are currently short-staffed and retrain laid-off workers for those jobs.

Alternatively, if the government won't do that, then at least negotiate labour-movement agreements with other countries so that if those countries have qualified mechanics to spare, they can come here. This would be much better than having unemployed mechanics abroad and car repair shops being held back from growing because of overly restrictive visa regulations here. This way, both countries can benefit. Even immigration of qualified mechanics would benefit Canada's economy because these mechanics would need to buy food, clothing, rent or buy shelter, pay taxes, etc., all of which would create spin-off jobs for Canadians while at the same time reduce the cost of car repair. This could also help unemployed Canadians who have skills that might be in short supply abroad.

What is the point of having unemployed mechanics abroad and short-staffed auto repair shops in Canada, while at the same time having unemployed professionas in Canada whose skills are in demand abroad? Through some kind of international labour-movement agreement, maybe through the WTO, we might be able to help each other to bring unemployment rates down internationally by sharing excess labour that other countries might need and vice versa.

What would be your thoughts on either job training to fill labour shortages or international labour-movement agreements?

Personally, I would agree with both and see them as mutually compatible and both beneficial. Your thoughts?

My husband worked for a chrysler dealership as the shuttle driver up to about a year or so ago (he worked there for a year or so). During his last few weeks there, they were constantly sending mechanics home for the day due to a lack of work. I don't understand how there could be such a shortage if people are being sent home for a lack of work.

 

[Machjo]

I'm all for retraining or training Canadians, via whatever means available, apprenticeship programs, community colleges.

But, if that shortage is real, we should be doing it yesterday. As in nurses. Those hoola hoops that Mike Hairass got rid of a few years ago.

I haven't checked the stats, but I would bet there's quite a few trades and professions which could use some trained bodies.

A young friend of mine has almost completed his plumbing apprenticeship, and plans to go to one of the islands off BC.........lots of houses. NO plumbers.

I really feel we should use Canadians first.

So, we probably won't.

go figure.

:-(

I don't see why the two must necessarily be mutually exclusive. By negotiating labour-mobility agreements through the WTO we might be able to alleviate the shortage temporarily, while training could start now for when the recession is over and some of the foreigers decide to go back home, just in time for our graduates to take replace them. Of course any foreigner who wants to stay should be welcome; after all, their countries would be accepting Canadian workers too.

I don't see why such an agreement and job training must be mutually exclusive as you seem to suggest.

 

[Machjo]

My husband worked for a chrysler dealership as the shuttle driver up to about a year or so ago (he worked there for a year or so). During his last few weeks there, they were constantly sending mechanics home for the day due to a lack of work. I don't understand how there could be such a shortage if people are being sent home for a lack of work.

I'm just going by what I'd heard on the National last night. Of course they could be wrong, or alternatively they were simply looking at national averages. If the latter is the case, then it's possible that though there are shortages overall, that some local towns are exceptions, with excess mechanics. If that's the case, then some of those mechanics might be willing to relocate and, if so, some employers might be prepared to sign some agreement with them giving their first month's pay in advance and help them establish themselves in the new town if the demand is high enough. Besides, this would prove to be an investment for a busy car repair shop that's always struggling to find enough qualified staff.

 

[tracy]

The problem is the training time and the ability to do so. Nurses for instance take 4 years just to graduate then need extra on the job training to go into any specialty. They don't have enough training spaces to meet the demand. They do allow a lot of nurses to immigrate to Canada every year. I see no reason why any profession should be different. If it's in demand, let them come.

 

[Machjo]

The problem is the training time and the ability to do so. Nurses for instance take 4 years just to graduate then need extra on the job training to go into any specialty. They don't have enough training spaces to meet the demand. They do allow a lot of nurses to immigrate to Canada every year. I see no reason why any profession should be different. If it's in demand, let them come.

Sensible enough. But then we need to market it. Let's say that htere are myths out there that it's tough to enter Canada. Then Canada should make people aware that it's not tough if you have the proper qualifications for whatever job is in demand. Maybe the problem is general knowledge among foreigners. And as you pointed out so beautifully, training and international labour mobility could be mutually beneficial, with internaitonal labour mobility if not solving, then at least alleviating the short-term shortage, while training could solve the long-term shortage. In this sense, we should see this recession as a p=blessing in disguise, providing us with laid-off workers whom we could train to prepare for the coming labour shortage in the next few years. If we fail to do that now, we'll just go from a recession to inflationary labour shortages in the next few years. Now is the time to prepare for the upcoming labour shortage. If we do it right, we might be able to escape inflationary labour shortages yet.

 

[tracy]

Sensible enough. But then we need to market it. Let's say that htere are myths out there that it's tough to enter Canada. Then Canada should make people aware that it's not tough if you have the proper qualifications for whatever job is in demand. Maybe the problem is general knowledge among foreigners. And as you pointed out so beautifully, training and international labour mobility could be mutually beneficial, with internaitonal labour mobility if not solving, then at least alleviating the short-term shortage, while training could solve the long-term shortage. In this sense, we should see this recession as a p=blessing in disguise, providing us with laid-off workers whom we could train to prepare for the coming labour shortage in the next few years. If we fail to do that now, we'll just go from a recession to inflationary labour shortages in the next few years. Now is the time to prepare for the upcoming labour shortage. If we do it right, we might be able to escape inflationary labour shortages yet.

I think saying it's not tough would be a lie. Any profession that registers its members is somewhat difficult to just jump into. You have to prove you had similar training in your home country to that required in Canada, that you speak English well enough, that your profession is in demand, that your employer has already tried to hire Canadian citizens... it can take a couple of years. It's often expensive too.

I worked with lots of foreign nurses and docs, but it took them all a fair bit of time to come over and many of them would no longer be allowed thanks to the changes in education. UK nurses for instance, can not register in Canada unless they take extra training because they've changed their education system in the last few years. They don't have enough nursing jobs in the UK so they have a lot of unemployed new nurses, but they can't come to Canada or the US where we have a shortage because they train as specialists not generalists like we do. Even an American nurse who trained in Seattle is not able to move to Vancouver and work unless she has her Bachelor's degree because BC requires that. It's a complicated process. I learned that when I decided to move to the US. I had to register with Minesota board of nursing, write the exam in New York, get my license transferred to California, pay a private company to evaluate my education and experience... and even then I'm at the mercy of whatever border guard I happen to meet on the day I apply for my work permit.

 

[Machjo]

I think saying it's not tough would be a lie. Any profession that registers its members is somewhat difficult to just jump into. You have to prove you had similar training in your home country to that required in Canada, that you speak English well enough, that your profession is in demand, that your employer has already tried to hire Canadian citizens... it can take a couple of years. It's often expensive too.

I worked with lots of foreign nurses and docs, but it took them all a fair bit of time to come over and many of them would no longer be allowed thanks to the changes in education. UK nurses for instance, can not register in Canada unless they take extra training because they've changed their education system in the last few years. They don't have enough nursing jobs in the UK so they have a lot of unemployed new nurses, but they can't come to Canada or the US where we have a shortage because they train as specialists not generalists like we do. Even an American nurse who trained in Seattle is not able to move to Vancouver and work unless she has her Bachelor's degree because BC requires that. It's a complicated process. I learned that when I decided to move to the US. I had to register with Minesota board of nursing, write the exam in New York, get my license transferred to California, pay a private company to evaluate my education and experience... and even then I'm at the mercy of whatever border guard I happen to meet on the day I apply for my work permit.

So would you agree then for the Canadian government to negotiate some kind of labour standards agreement through UNESCO? This could be done in collaboration with the WTO through some kind of global mobility agreement?

I ask these questions because while I realize that we're in recession, I also acknowledge that we should not waste our resources creating make-work jobs just for the sake of creating jobs; especially when we consider the likelyhood a inflationary labour shortages in the next few years as we climb out of this recession. That being the case, it would appear to me to be prudent to intertwine any job-cration programme to education and international co-operation to prepare us for the coming years. If we fail now, we'll just go from recession to inflation. if we play are cards right, we'll go from recession to stable economy.

Just some thoughts. What are your thoughts on this? Random bail-outs or a more long-term solution through education and international collaboration?

 

[Machjo]

I also believe tht if education could be more specialized, that can save money too, rather than teach all kinds of stuff that's not likley to even be relevent for the job being trained for. Of course general education is important in elementary and secondary school. But once we're mature, if the educaiton is paid for by the government, it ought to be specialized for the trade or profession in question in order to use our resources as efficiently as possible. We might need to make it easier for people to challenge tests too for those who might be self-taught but have no formal qualifications.

Again, just some thoughts.

 

[Machjo]

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/business/81155-should-canada-negotiate-labour-mobility.html

Please feel free to vote here too.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Saskatchewan has a labour shortage and needs another 15,000 or 18,000 bodies
last I heard. Ontario has many-many-many recently unemployed persons needing
work. If you can not convince them to slide two provinces west, it'll be doubtful
that you could convince them to export their skills globally. Sad but it may be a
reality. I like your idea, but will the human nature of the unemployed work with
your idea? Retrain for new skills and move, or move to utilize your current skills.
How many will just sit and wait for a hand-out?

 

[Machjo]

Saskatchewan has a labour shortage and needs another 15,000 or 18,000 bodies
last I heard. Ontario has many-many-many recently unemployed persons needing
work. If you can not convince them to slide two provinces west, it'll be doubtful
that you could convince them to export their skills globally. Sad but it may be a
reality. I like your idea, but will the human nature of the unemployed work with
your idea? Retrain for new skills and move, or move to utilize your current skills.
How many will just sit and wait for a hand-out?

I'm well aware that many people don't want to leave their family and friends behind, and that few would axploit such an opportunity. But few is better than none, and that's the whole point. Additionally, except for the time and the cost for flights, hotel rooms, banquets, etc during initial WTO meetings to make such an agreement, it would be cost-free from then on in. After all, all it's doing is establishing common standards. Once those are in place, it's just a matter for governments to conform to these standards. That's it. So for no cost except initial agreements, we would all reap benefits for as long as the agreements hold. So even if only a few people exploit this opportunity, it can only pay for itself sooner or later.

Now I also agree that we should never treat humans like economic machines. That being the case, we should never force a person to move to gain employment. But people still have a responsibility to society, and in that respect, instead of giving them a hand-out, why not give them a hand-up through education in a trade or profession.

I beleive that it's human nature for people to want to feel like productive, valued and giving members of the community. That being the case, I also beleive that people who sit and wait for a hand-out do so not out of choice, but due to a lack of the education necessary to give them choice.

Also, we need to be careful with hand-outs. If a person has an addiction, to drugs, sex, gambling, etc., are we really helping the person by giving him a hand-out? I don't agree with giving money to the unemployed. Instead of giving them money, we should provide them with shelter, food, clothing, education, etc... but never money. After all, if they're unemployed, there's a reason. Sometimes it's just lack of skills, but we don't know that for sure. So unless we're 100% sure, it's best to play it safe if we really care for their well-being. Provide them with dorms and common study rooms, kitchens and washrooms instead, and with the education they need to get back on their feet. Give them all they need, but never money. Give them a fish, but only while teaching them how to fish too.

And just to clarify, I do not look down on the unemployed at all and realise that many of them work hard at handing out resumes. They mean well, but lack the knowledge necessary. So let's give it to them.

 

[Machjo]

I would also agree that while we have a responsibility to educate and provide for the unemployed, once we have given them the education they need, they have no right to dictate salary. Once they have suficient education to find work, then they're expected to take whatever local job they can get which maches their skills, irrespective of income. They don't get to dictate salary.

But fair enough, we have a duty to eliminate the extremes of wealth and poverty, but not wealth and poverty altogether. Extremes aside, moderate wealth and moderate poverty are just normal parts of a healthy economy.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Sounds like a good idea. Until that's in place, can you have the unemployed
close to you skim through these want adds?

Eluta: jobs in Saskatchewan
_____________________________

 

[Machjo]

Also, while I don't agree with forcing persons to relocate, I would see nothing wrong with the government offering to pay reasonable relocation expenses for the unemployed who are willing to relocate and who have got a stable job offer already.

 

[Nuggler]

I don't see why the two must necessarily be mutually exclusive. By negotiating labour-mobility agreements through the WTO we might be able to alleviate the shortage temporarily, while training could start now for when the recession is over and some of the foreigers decide to go back home, just in time for our graduates to take replace them. Of course any foreigner who wants to stay should be welcome; after all, their countries would be accepting Canadian workers too.

I don't see why such an agreement and job training must be mutually exclusive as you seem to suggest.

______________
Nope, not mutually exclusive. We don't use immigrants. Train our own people first. That's what I meant. That's what we don't do, and we need to. Sorry if I "seemed" to suggest something. Should have made myself clear, which I have no problem doing.

Got it now?

 

[Machjo]

Sounds like a good idea. Until that's in place, can you have the unemployed
close to you skim through these want adds?

Eluta: jobs in Saskatchewan
_____________________________

A quick glance at that web site suggests that alot of those jobs would need some kind of qualifications. But again, if an unemployed person were willing to move there, it would make more sense to educate him for a job or profession than to just leave him unemployed for years on end. Once working, not only does he pay taxes, but will be a happier person too, feeling like an accomplished member of society.

Better yet, let's make sure all Canadians are qualified for some kind of trade or profession by the age of 15. They could always upgrade from there on in of course, but have at least entry-level qualifications. Besides, we could squeeze such additional courses into summer and winter and spring holidays, and maybe one day a week on Saturdays or Sundays. Of course if we did that, we'd have to limit their daily school hours to be fair, but even with that, it would still give many more hours. Sure we might have to pay more taxes to do this initially, but it would have a number of advantages:

1. Create jobs for teachers, and

2. Ensure that most can go on to decent-paying jobs straight out of highschool if necessary. If they want to upgrade their skills, they could do that too, and because nearly all could then work at decent salary, we'd have a larger tax base to pay for this new educational structure, people would feel happier, and and a more efficient workforce would also help to control labour shortages in times of growth in labour-demand.

 

[Machjo]

______________
Nope, not mutually exclusive. We don't use immigrants. Train our own people first. That's what I meant. That's what we don't do, and we need to. Sorry if I "seemed" to suggest something. Should have made myself clear, which I have no problem doing.

Got it now?

Thanks Nuggler. I can be guilty of ambiguity too sometimes. If it happens, just let me know and I have no problem explaining myself either. And yes I agree that while international labour-mobility might be a good idea, we should not depend on that exclusively. After all, it would be embarrassing for Canada to develop an internaitonal reputation for leeching qualified workers from other countries after their governmetns have spent so much money training them just for us to reap the rewards. I certainly wouldn't want our country to develop that kind of reputation; it would be embarrassing.

So yes, I agree that we need to carry our part of the burden too. One possible solution would be to establish some kind of international standard to ensure that all countries invest a fair portion of their GDP on education, to ensure that no country unfairly exploits the international labour market just be leaching off of others.

So I fully agree with your sentiment there.