Canadian Energy Policy

vista

Electoral Member
Mar 28, 2004
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www.newsgateway.ca
Considering my rantings on this issue. This Front Page article gives me somewhat vindication among my friends who rightly say I go on about this subject.

But the reality is, without energy there is nothing and until we address this issue, (with the exception of Climate Change) all other topics are irrelevant.

World creeping closer to 'oil shock'
Energy crisis could loom, experts say

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...ageid=970599109774&col=Columnist1003746427150
 

crash

Nominee Member
Jul 27, 2004
85
0
6
Nova Scotia
Well, I am sure we're aware of what happened the last time a Prime Minister attempted to debunk an energy crisis. As ineffective as the policy was in the short term....

The result of the policies that eventually cumulated in the National Energy Policy (NEP) were diasterous for Trudeau (he was smart to do it in his last term). What was worse is that it turned the west strongly against the east and especially the Atlantic provinces who benefitted most from the NEP.

I think personally that we most certainly need to deversify our sources of enegry but at the same time I think that in the mean time we have to invest in our own land based energy reserves as well. There is much hope for the future of natural gas here on the east coast/north where more projects are slowly getting underway and the Martin government is pushing wind power. I am sure these measures will go a long way in stopping our dependancy problem. This being said Canada could become a major player on the international scene in oil if the federal government chose to ambitiously invest in land based energy.

We must work in all regions to come up with energy alternatives and strengthing in our existing infrastructure instead of playing off benefits to one region to the detriment of the other.
 

researchok

Council Member
Jun 12, 2004
1,103
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36
Think Hydro and hydrogen

Hydro Quebec bought into a French company-- alternative fuel vehicles.

HQ may be slow, but they never miss.

INVEST in that French company, you unbridled capitalists!
 

vista

Electoral Member
Mar 28, 2004
314
0
16
www.newsgateway.ca
The Star series hasn't sounded the warning of the implications of Peak Oil. It still promotes the message of 'go back to sleep, someone will take care of it when they decide, to get around to it.'

The question of time of Peak Oil has been raised in the Running on Empty discussion group.

My feeling is 2004 as it would appear Saudi Arabia has peaked - then as Matt Simmons comments the world has. Oil production is on the downside as demand is on the upside. When these charts are placed on top of each other - the result does not look good.

From the group, here is someone's commentary on the Peak date:

"Most of the predictions we are looking at don't factor in the exploding demand for oil from China and India. That is why I think that peak will be this year or at the latest in 2005. All of the oil producers except Saudi are pumpin gas fast as they can. We don't know about Saudi, but they very well could be too. If that is the case, we are probably at peak now; if not, we may have a year or two. I can't possibly see how it can be much longer than that.

I doubt if we will know when we are at peak. Everything said on this site and elsewhere says we won't know we were at peak until a year or two later.

I think that oil prices will bounce around a lot around the peak. They are doing that now. Thet will react to every rumor, good or bad. Each price spike will ber a little higher than the previous one. People will continue there wasteful habits, thinking this is just another temporary thing like all the others were. A lot of third world nations will be getting priced out of the market which will keep the supply going here in the United States. Airlines, which are already having financial problems, will be one of the first industries to go under. The country will go into a recession as people are having to spend more and more of their income on food, transportation and utilities. The recession, which will be world wide will take some of the pressure off peak and may give us a little slack for a year or two. Prices may even come down a bit for awhile.

I don't think the world will ever get over this recession, but will eventually slide into a world depression. Somewhere in 4 or 5 years, people will begin to realize this is for real and we will never have cheap oil again. Then panic will set in. The stock market will have already crashed, but it will go down to the point that people are almost giving stock away. The stock market may remain for a few more years, but most people will have abandoned their interest in it even though they own worthless stock.

By this time, there will be massive unemployment, food riots, gas riots and just riots in general. The government will declare maritial law and activate the national guard if they are not all in the middle east somewhere. Hopefully, some of the smaller communities will begin working to bring a subsistence level of life to their community. People still living in the cities will be starving to death and mass epidemics will happen.

Where we go from this point is hard to guess. Even getting to this point will depend a lot on how governments act. If our country continues its aggressive ways, things may fall apart a lot quicker. We may end up in a nuclear holocaust. If Bush is reelected, he may choose to aid his rich friends and let the rest of the country go to hell. What Kerry would do is anybody's guess.

I think there is a good chance this presidential election will be the last in this country. I think the situation will be bad enough in four years that whoever is in office will delay the elections indefinetely.

Jack in NE Tennessee"

Perhaps a tad pessimistc but I too find it hard to be optimisic on this crisis. Mainstream coverage is rather benign to the issue.

Realistically speaking, the ellasticity in the system - the 1 Mmpd spare capacity will likely disappear by 2008. At this point, oil shortages will occur and the long overdue "wake up call", will be sounded.

We will have no one to blame but ourselves and our young children will rightly blame us.

In Ontario, the government wants to spend $100 million for infrastructure upgades over 30 years.

The infrastucture plans take in to account that what life is like now will be the same in 30 years. In will not happen this way! They have no clue that we won't be driving cars in 30 years!

But as far as the food issue goes... remember how the supermarkets took a while to be re-stocked after the August blackout or 2003. Next time they may not be so easily restocked.

No more 3,000 mile Ceasar Salads from the Central Valley of California.

I am buying seeds :wink:

"The world's history is the world's judgement."
 

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
researchok said:
Think Hydro and hydrogen

Hydro Quebec bought into a French company-- alternative fuel vehicles.

HQ may be slow, but they never miss.

INVEST in that French company, you unbridled capitalists!

Hydro is amasing. I didnt even know they we're the world leader in Hydro Electricity till I did some research on em. Amasing :) Even greater, since they belong to the Citizens of Québec, in some odd way ;)
 

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
Anonymous said:
Little dated, but most still holds true - some obvious reasons for the high prices.

The situation around energy will forever increase in tension between the US and Canada. At some point we must decide if our own economic and energy security is tied to that of the US.

Other oil producing nations have both domestic and international pricing. So should we - its the right thing to do.

Whenever I say that, there is almost always some person who comes to the defence of the corporations. Some Canadians do firmly believe that the corporations have a right to earn a massive short term profit at the expense of every Canadian.

Talk NEP in Alberta and the corporate defenders will lynch you as quick as they can.

You know what is messing this hole thing up, NAFTA. It garantees exportation of Oil and Natural Gas resources of Canada to the US.
 

crash

Nominee Member
Jul 27, 2004
85
0
6
Nova Scotia
In english we say, "don't count your chickens until they're hatched".

The PQ has at best a 10 point lead and that can be overcome by atleast 3 more years in government and an election campaign. Lets save the bold proclaimations for election day :p
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
He's Premier right now, Numure. Filmon never had a mandate to privatise Manitoba Telephone either...it wasn't an issue that was discussed the last time he ran. He sold it off though. Now we are seeing rate increases on a regular basis.

We voted Filmon out, before he sell Manitoba Hydro off to his buddies too, but it was too late for MTS.
 

vista

Electoral Member
Mar 28, 2004
314
0
16
www.newsgateway.ca
Here is an interesting comment from The Street.com and this exemplies why I am so pessimistic on any success of the energy transition.


"When oil prices have doubled to $80 and a second Great Depression threatens global political stability, our president will assemble a 9/11-style commission to explain the intelligence and policy failures that led to the crisis. The verdict will be familiar: The stunning blow to the world economy brought about by the sudden, unexpected depletion of fossil fuel should have been anticipated and prevented.

When that day comes -- in five years or perhaps 20, who knows -- many of the key exhibits will have been penned by Matthew Simmons, a Houston energy analyst and banker at Simmons & Co. International.

Simmons is now shouting from the rooftops -- writing think-tank white papers, giving speeches and finishing a book set for publication next year -- that the world is quickly running out of affordable oil and gas, and that no amount of Middle Eastern pumping can bail us out."
 

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
crash said:
In english we say, "don't count your chickens until they're hatched".

The PQ has at best a 10 point lead and that can be overcome by atleast 3 more years in government and an election campaign. Lets save the bold proclaimations for election day :p

The PQ will be back in power. Charest's approval rating is at 30%. And besides, its always been like that here. Two PQ terms, then the libs come back in. They fuck up (only Bourassa who did a great job), and the PQ comes back. Certainly now, the people didnt realise how Conservative Charest is, and he went to far to the right. He killed himself on the Provincial scene. Don't pretend to know anything aboutr Québec politics. They are far more complicated, even for Québec Citizens. But another point, the Bloc sweeped the province, expect the PQ to do the same. As in 1993-1995.[/code]
 

crash

Nominee Member
Jul 27, 2004
85
0
6
Nova Scotia
I am a political science major, it is my bread and butter. I took am entire course that was completely dedicated to Quebec politics.

Don't be so pompus to assume that only a French canadian can know about Quebec politics.
 

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
crash said:
I am a political science major, it is my bread and butter. I took am entire course that was completely dedicated to Quebec politics.

Don't be so pompus to assume that only a French canadian can know about Quebec politics.

Not as much, only stating. Any political analysis has trouble with Québec. Actually, anyone claiming to know Québec Politics is a liar. Though things put themselves in place on their own.

I also followed the Political Science course, though I only went for a minor.
 

crash

Nominee Member
Jul 27, 2004
85
0
6
Nova Scotia
As an expert of quebec politics such as yourself should know, a 10 point gap is not unsurmountable not even in Quebec.

Just because in 1993-1995 that this happen does not mean that it will happen again. That is your personal opinion and it is based on one instance.

The mere existance of Bourassa disproves your theory which is not static in the first place.
 

crash

Nominee Member
Jul 27, 2004
85
0
6
Nova Scotia
I didn't say I was an expert in Quebec politics, though most certainly just as qualified as yourself to comment on it.

I also made no bold comments, only that a 10 point margain is not unsurmountable even in Quebec.
 

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
crash said:
As an expert of quebec politics such as yourself should know, a 10 point gap is not insurmountable not even in Quebec.

Just because in 1993-1995 that this happen does not mean that it will happen again. That is your personal opinion and it is based on one instance.

The mere existance of Bourassa disproves your theory which is not static in the first place.

10% is more then enough. And will most likely not evaporate. I predict, the difference to actually grow. With the Surois Projet more then likely to go ahead. The canceling of many deals in the north, with "Les Allumineries" most likely to cost many jobs, the cut backs in Cultural budgets also have a huge effect.

I'll admit though, this is quite premature. Let's wait till the last year to make a clear cut prediction. But still... voters have a long memory here. Unions have the longest one of all.
 

crash

Nominee Member
Jul 27, 2004
85
0
6
Nova Scotia
Well, ok, now that you have atleast bothered to counter the arguement of the "ignorant english canadian" we can atleast talk about it.

Unions are gonna hurt him and he is far behind but I have seen 10 point gaps evaporate very quickly. It hasn't helped that the federal liberals are as currpt as the day is long, and even in Quebec the voters confuse federal and provincial politics. The provincial Libs in Quebec lost 4 points alone between polls when the sponsorship scandal came out.
 

vista

Electoral Member
Mar 28, 2004
314
0
16
www.newsgateway.ca
CANADA'S TORONTO STAR:

Warns of Energy Crisis -- Editorial Board: Stark choices face us on energy use

The fact that our failure to make modest sacrifices today ultimately will only invite chaos and social upheaval when the world reaches the point where there is simply not enough fossil fuel to satisfy all our needs.

Former Governor General: a "disaster of truly epic proportions."