Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can Tre

[Walrus]

Re: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

Wow...a complete misrepresentation of the facts. This isn't the Bill O'Reilly show, Crit...or even one of Stevie Harper speeches.

If that is the reponse that I get from fearing from my daughters life than you are no better than the cockroach I stepped on last week.

First, why didn't you take your child to the States to get treated if you thought it was so important and life-threatening? I would venture to say that you didn't want to be faced with the high bill afterwards - am I right or is there some other reason you can give?

It would have been a 3 hour drive and the nurse kept telling us that he would see her soon. That's why I didn't drive. If I knew it would have taken 11 hours, I WOULD have driven to the States and paid whatever they asked of me. How do you explain the thousands of Canadians that go to the States for treatment. Is it beacause our healthcare system is better? Get a clue.

Second, a big misperception is that for an emergency your child would have recieved prompt service in the US. This is simply not true, studies of the various health care systems have shown that their emergency wards are subjected to the same waiting periods as ours - emergency wards are always under severe strain.

Public hospitals have no where near the waiting times we have. Plus, they have private clinics fof those that wish to pay for service and avoid the waiting times. In Canada, we have NO choice.
Third, nothing in this life is free, we pay for it in some way or another - our taxe rate is no where near the highest in the industrial world we are number 12 at 38.5% of our GDP. Sweden is number 1 at 54.2% of their GDP. By the way, these taxes also support education for your child which I have to pay even though I have no children - you're welcome.

Third, nothing in this life is free, we pay for it in some way or another - our taxe rate is no where near the highest in the industrial world we are number 12 at 38.5% of our GDP. Sweden is number 1 at 54.2% of their GDP. By the way, these taxes also support education for your child which I have to pay even though I have no children - you're welcome.

Don't use your smoke and mirror numbers on me. Your using a median income tax rate. That doesn't account for GST, PST, gas tax, tax on tax (surtax) and my newly found favorite the health tax in Ontario. There are hundreds more but you get my point. Our real tax rate is over 55%.

By the way, these taxes also support education for your child which I have to pay even though I have no children - you're welcome.

I have been employed and paying taxes for 20 years and my daughter is too young to be in school. It's best that you remain childless, because both Canada and the world would appreciate that your gene pool stops with you.

It's too bad you had to stoop to gross insults thrown at me to try to dispute my points because I believe we could have had a reasonable discussion about the problems with our health care system rather than resorting to a flame war. Perhaps my last post seemed a little harsh but my points are well supported by facts which I have thoroughly researched. Your points seem to be based purely on emotion as a result of the unfortunate circumstances with your child. Since you don't seem to be willing to discuss these points in a rational manner I believe any further discussion with you is pointless.

 

[Extrafire]

Re: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

Why are the lefties so opposed to changing our health care system into something that works? Any time change is suggested they scream how we don't want an American health care system. Well that wouldn't be my first choice either but it's better than ours. Why not adopt a European system, such as France's or Germany's, where there is no waiting and everyone gets better care than we do? Would you refuse us good health care just because the private sector is a part of it?

 

[Jay]

RE: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

"Why are the lefties so opposed to changing our health care system into something that works?"

I think they feel threatened by any change because it amounts to admitting it didn't work.

You have to remember these ppl actually believe that this "health care system" is their national identity. To admit the system is flawed is to admit a whole lot more than just that.

(Disclaimer) This doesn't apply to all lefties.

 

[zenfisher]

RE: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

Why are those on the right so in favour of a system that is mired in making the insurance companies wealthy at the expense of providing real healthcare for everyone?

 

[Extrafire]

Re: RE: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We

Why are those on the right so in favour of a system that is mired in making the insurance companies wealthy at the expense of providing real healthcare for everyone?

See what I mean? I suggest European style health care and he insinuates that I mean an American system.

Check it out. The Europeans have the best healthcare in the world, providing real health care for everyone, the kind we can only dream about, the kind that only the prime minister, his cronies and the wealthy can afford in Canada. What's wrong with that for us?

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We

Why are those on the right so in favour of a system that is mired in making the insurance companies wealthy at the expense of providing real healthcare for everyone?

I guess it’s because we aren’t getting "real health care" under the current system.


If insurance companies make a buck at it so what, Doctors make all sorts of money off of this so called non-profit system, maybe they should work for free? Manufactures of medical products make money too.

Why doesn't the left care that line ups are to long, and there aren’t enough doctors or beds, and that the system wants to have us all treated in walk in clinics?

Why are they so concerned some one might spend a few dollars on health care? Why are they so completely politically driven and jealous of any one who has the scruples to help themselves?

 

[Walrus]

Re: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

Why are the lefties so opposed to changing our health care system into something that works? Any time change is suggested they scream how we don't want an American health care system. Well that wouldn't be my first choice either but it's better than ours. Why not adopt a European system, such as France's or Germany's, where there is no waiting and everyone gets better care than we do? Would you refuse us good health care just because the private sector is a part of it?

First of all, if you think I am a 'lefty' you are wrong. I disagree fundamentally with anybody who takes the position that the American system is better than what we have. Our system is not perfect but it is certainly better than theirs. The Americans have a system which is twice as expensive per person as ours, 1/6th of their population has no health insurance coverage, their drug industry soaks their own customers in order to improve their profit margins - making the pharmaceutical industry in the US the most profitable one to invest in - and they have one of the lowest life expectancy and highest infant mortality rates among developed countries. One of the leading causes of bankruptcy in the United States is medical bills.

Your idea concerning the European systems has merit but even they have their drawbacks. The best solution, in my opinion, would be to examine the strengths of every system and improve our system to make it the best in the world. The Americans had the opportunity to do the same thing back during Clinton's attempts to reform it but they squandered that opportunity by criticizing ours and other socialized medical systems. They still criticize our system and use its drawbacks in order to frighten their own population against reforming their system. That is their loss, our responsibility is to ensure that we don't follow their lead in this matter.

 

[mrmom2]

RE: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

Whats the number one reason for bankrupcy in the US?

Health care bills

Enough said about US health care

 

[Jay]

RE: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

"Enough said about US health care"

There are other ways of dealing with the system, That i agree with.

 

[Extrafire]

Re: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

Most of the people in the US who have no health insurance are the rich who pay their own way totally. The rest are the poor, and for them there are government services, county hospitals etc. One of our locals was in the US and had an appendicities emergency and ended up in a county hospital next to an HIV patient who had no insurance. He was getting the full costly treatment courtesy of the taxpayer. Our former prime minister, after boasting that we had da best healt care in da world went to the US for treatment. The US gov't spends more per capita on health care than does Canada, and that's over and above all the private health care. There's no waiting for MRI's, no waiting to see a specialist, no heart patients dying while waiting in line for bypass surgery. Friends of mine took their father to the US for lung cancer treatment because here he had to wait 4 months just to see a specialist before they could even begin treatment. At the American clinic he saw a doctor, saw a specialist, had tests and his lifesaving operation in 9 days. That's how the American system is superior to ours. Do I want it? Absolutely not. I want the best, the European system.

 

[dukee]

Re: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

The best solution, in my opinion, would be to examine the strengths of every system and improve our system to make it the best in the world.

That will never happen in Canada. Our medicare system is one of the ways Canadians define themselves as nation.

No matter how crappy it gets, to suggest anything that would substaintly change how it is run would be considered treasonist.

 

[mrmom2]

Re: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

The rest are the poor, and for them there are government services, county hospitals etc Where they are only stabilised and...ed goverment hospital that will take them :(

 

[zenfisher]

Re: RE: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We

Why are those on the right so in favour of a system that is mired in making the insurance companies wealthy at the expense of providing real healthcare for everyone?

See what I mean? I suggest European style health care and he insinuates that I mean an American system.

Where did I say American system? I said the right is mired in forcing us into a system that is rife with overinflated insurance costs. I agree several European countries have a much better health care system.

For those that want to know why doctors charge so much...look into how much doctors pay for malpractise insurance. Look how much Hospitals pay for malpractise insurance. Look at the costs of administering a meriad of health insurance plans. Those costs are passed directly to the patient. That's how insurance affects your medical plans.(okay ...now I am talking American plans)

Not everyone is eligble for full medicare and medicaid payments.Did you ever stop to think that the cost of treating one aids patient is so exorbitant that the patient was driven into bankruptcy and had no choice but to rely on the state for aid? This would be, of course, after spending their entire life savings on treatment.

If you cut the red tape in any system...you are going to find the money to provide real care fore everyone. The hard part is getting people to let go of the way they do things and look at what will really solve the problem.

 

[Extrafire]

Re: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

Why are those on the right so in favour of a system that is mired in making the insurance companies wealthy at the expense of providing real healthcare for everyone?


See what I mean? I suggest European style health care and he insinuates that I mean an American system.



Where did I say American system? I said the right is mired in forcing us into a system that is rife with overinflated insurance costs. I agree several European countries have a much better health care system.

a system that is rife with overinflated insurance costs.

Is there a system other than the American that such a claim could refer to?

 

[zenfisher]

RE: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

Your looking at individual costs...I am refering to insurance for hospitals and doctors. Pick a country. They all have overinflated insurance costs to protect themselves from liability. If you would have continued, you would have seen that I admitted the highlighted quote was about the US system. If you also would have continued to read...you would have seen that I also said that several european countries have better systems. :idea:

 

[Extrafire]

Re: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

I am refering to insurance for hospitals and doctors. Pick a country. They all have overinflated insurance costs to protect themselves from liability. If you would have continued, you would have seen that I admitted the highlighted quote was about the US system.

I was unaware of any country having overinflated insurance costs other than the US. Everything I've heard about the European systems indicates that patients pay with their own money when they access private health care. And I did read all the way to the bottom, but when I went back up to highlight I got the wrong one. I was intending to quote this one as insinuating the American system:

Why are those on the right so in favour of a system that is mired in making the insurance companies wealthy at the expense of providing real healthcare for everyone?

I agree several European countries have a much better health care system.

Several? EVERY European country has a much better health care system, and they all use a combination public/private system. I'm not looking at costs at all. I'm only interested in the quality of health care provided.

 

[zenfisher]

RE: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

Don't believe me....ask your doctor what he pays for malpractise insurance. Ask if he thinks its to high. Hospitals pay that too.

Oh ...Romania, Bosnia, Turkey, , Russia...all better plans? I'm not sure but I have my doubts.

 

[I think not]

Re: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

Uhm, which countries in Europe are you refering to? I've been to Greece, Italy, England and Switzerland and have stayed there for an extensive period of time. Whatever you guys are complaining about, they have the same complaints there. You get what you pay for. Of course in the US it costs more, everybody knows that :wink: , right?

It costs me $210 a month. Now ask me if i put a price on my health?

Whats the number one reason for bankrupcy in the US?

Health care bills

Enough said about US health care

Better bankruptcy than dead, no?

 

[crit13]

Re: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

$2,400 per year in insurance costs to get top notch medical treatment.

As a Canadian that pays tens of thousands in tax, I wonder how much of that goes to fund our bankrupt system? I remember hearing that almost 50% of all tax revenue goes to fund our health care system. Yikes!!!

I'm paying over $10,000 per year for health care and I've been to see my doctor once in the past 5 years. What a deal!!

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: Canada to Heart Patients: Sorry If You Die Before We Can

$2,400 per year in insurance costs to get top notch medical treatment.

As a Canadian that pays tens of thousands in tax, I wonder how much of that goes to fund our bankrupt system? I remember hearing that almost 50% of all tax revenue goes to fund our health care system. Yikes!!!

I'm paying over $10,000 per year for health care and I've been to see my doctor once in the past 5 years. What a deal!!

Well don't let that beaver trip you on your way across the border then Crit... :lol: