Can we believe anything US Ambassador Bolton says?

CDNBear

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Machjo

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You have to watch this video. He even brags about his ability to spin things, and compares himself to the politicians he knows as kindred spirits!

It's just hilarious. I challenge you to watch the video with a straight face. Even some leftists here will likely agree with Fox News on this one.

Is he a politician?

I think you can figure out my answer from there.

No, he's a diplomat. The US Ambassador to the UN.

That's BS, because we all know that Faux News is biased and supports the right wing establishment at all costs.

Making your comment, a dirty lie Machjo.

Huh?
 

CDNBear

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You have to watch this video. He even brags about his ability to spin things, and compares himself to the politicians he knows as kindred spirits!
I saw it Mach.
It's just hilarious. I challenge you to watch the video with a straight face. Even some leftists here will likely agree with Fox News on this one.
Only if hell freezes over. If they were even remotely honest with themselves, they'd have to deny anything Faux says.


No, he's a diplomat. The US Ambassador to the UN.
Dude, he's a career politician. You don't have to be an elected official to be a politician.


Faux News never broadcasts the truth...according to some. I was kidding around with you Mach.
 

Machjo

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What I don't get is this. If I were the Prime Minister of Canada and Canada's Ambassador revealed his contempt for the basic human principle of truthfulness, I'd have a word with him awfully quickly, wanting to know what other lies he may have said, either to me, the Canadian people, the UN, or even our enemies. After all, saying nothing is not the same as lying. If our Ambassador is known as a liar, then when he says things, his friends won't believe him. The UN won't believe him and therefore not act on his recommendations even when he is telling the truth (remember the boy who cried wolf?). And what happens when he's then called upon to give a country a warning. Will that country believe him? in the end, he becomes an ineffective sitting duck.

If I should find out that he had lied in his capacity as Ambassador, to anyone, even once, I'd fire his ass on the spot. The fact that he feels so comfortable bragging about his ability to lie so publicly also says something about his employer, the US government. After all, if I were PM of Canada, and the Canadian Ambassdor to the UN were a proud liar, he'd keep it to himself if he valued his job because he'd know damn well that if I got wind of it, he'd be on his ass.

The fact that he feels so comfortable saying it in public suggests at worst that his government encourages dishonesty, and at best that his government is ambivalent about the truth or spineless.

So, what will Barak Obama do about such a sleezebag diplomat I wonder. He he had any spine, he'd lay him on his butt. And if he had half a brain, he'd see this as an opportunity to even win a few brownie points with Fox News. How does Obama tolerate such a sleesze?
 

Icarus27k

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John Bolton is the former US Ambassador to the UN. He left in like late 2006 when he couldn't get a second confirmation from the US Senate. Now, he's pretty much just a pundit on TV.
 

Machjo

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John Bolton is the former US Ambassador to the UN. He left in like late 2006 when he couldn't get a second confirmation from the US Senate. Now, he's pretty much just a pundit on TV.

Then I stand corrected. I knew Bush had appointed him as UN Ambassador, and thought (now obviously erroneously) that Obama had chosen to keep that sleeze bag. I guess Obama had more sense than that.

This guy's worse than a politician to be willing to admit publicly that he'd proud of the fact that he woudl lie for his country. Proud of it!
 

CDNBear

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This guy's worse than a politician to be willing to admit publicly that he'd proud of the fact that he woudl lie for his country. Proud of it!
Sometimes lying for your country is a necessary evil Mach. Let's not get carried away.
 

Icarus27k

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I have to be corrected as well. Bolton couldn't have got a "second confirmation" as US Ambassador to the UN because he was never confirmed in the first place. Instead, President Bush recess appointed Bolton (thus bypassing the Senate). Bolton served as the Ambassador for about a year and a half, and then when his temporary recess appointment ended and he couldn't get confirmed for a longer tenure, he left.







Barack Obama's Ambassador to the UN is Susan Rice.

Susan Rice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which actually disappointed me. Some Obama supporters were hoping that Bill Clinton would get the job.
 

Machjo

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Sometimes lying for your country is a necessary evil Mach. Let's not get carried away.

An ideal the US Founding Fathers would be proud of, the idea that the voters are not entitled to information that could help them vote more responsibly, or information that could be offensive to other countries. Stay out of their affairs or at least have the courage to stand up to them openly.

There is never a valid reason to lie. If a country lives up to its ideals, there will be nothing to lie about. If it has to lie, it's because it's not living up to its ideals. And like I said before, there is a difference between lying and withholding the truth. At least by withholding the truth they're still being honest in that their non-comment indicates that they are not revealing everything. That is a far cry from lying to the world.
 

CDNBear

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An ideal the US Founding Fathers would be proud of, the idea that the voters are not entitled to information that could help them vote more responsibly, or information that could be offensive to other countries. Stay out of their affairs or at least have the courage to stand up to them openly.

There is never a valid reason to lie. If a country lives up to its ideals, there will be nothing to lie about. If it has to lie, it's because it's not living up to its ideals. And like I said before, there is a difference between lying and withholding the truth. At least by withholding the truth they're still being honest in that their non-comment indicates that they are not revealing everything. That is a far cry from lying to the world.
God, you're naive.
 

CDNBear

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So you don't think we the people have a right to know what we the government are up to?How do we then vote responsibly if we don't know the truth?
If you think the Founding Fathers didn't spin, and were absolutely honest at all times. I have some property in Florida for sale for you. Cheap.

It's a fact of operating a Gov't, there will be state secrets and state endorsed lies. There has to be to protect a countries interests.

"We the people"? You can please some of the people some of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time.

It's as simple as that.
A basic requirement of democracy.
 

Machjo

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If you think the Founding Fathers didn't spin, and were absolutely honest at all times. I have some property in Florida for sale for you. Cheap.

It's a fact of operating a Gov't, there will be state secrets and state endorsed lies. There has to be to protect a countries interests.

"We the people"? You can please some of the people some of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time.

It's as simple as that.

State secrets I can agree with. State lies? That is lying to the people.

Is it so hard for a diplomat to say "No comment!"

Or likewise a politician? At least by saying 'No comment", he's not lying to the people. If anything is treason, what about lying to the people you represent?
 

CDNBear

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State secrets I can agree with.
Good, because that is the lie of omission you just endorsed. And guess what...

To lie by omission is to remain silent and thereby withhold from someone else a vital piece (or pieces) of information. The silence is deceptive in that it gives a false impression to the person from whom the information was withheld. It subverts the truth; it is a way to manipulate someone into altering their behavior to suit the desire of the person who intentionally withheld the vital information; and, most importantly, it's a gross violation of another person's right of self-determination.

Have you ever heard the word, "spin doctor?" This is the job title for the political campaign people who intentionally speak only a part of the truth with the goal of deceiving their listeners and getting the listener to supporting the spin doctor's candidate.
The Art of Lying

State lies?
Yes, state lies.

That is lying to the people.
Sometimes the people need to be lied to, for the greater good Mach.
 

Machjo

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Good, because that is the lie of omission you just endorsed. And guess what...

The Art of Lying

To say "No comment" is not the same as lying.

Sometimes the people need to be lied to, for the greater good Mach.

Ridiculous.

Now coming back to omissions, if a politician or diplomat has a policy of never lying, then a simple trick would be to ask him if he omitted anything. He may refuse to answer, or answer yes but not reveal what he's refused to answer. But at least we know that what he does say is true. There is a difference there.