Bloc betray their values to the COns in Budget vote

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
OTTAWA (CP) - The minority Conservative government has won approval in principle for its first budget in the House of Commons, with a helping hand from the separatist Bloc Quebecois.

In a key confidence test Wednesday, the budget passed handily by a vote of 175 to 113.

The Bloc support, announced before Finance Minister Jim Flaherty had even finished reading his budget speech last week, was more than enough to outweigh opposition from the Liberals and NDP.

But the vote - to "approve in general the budgetary policy of the government" - isn't necessarily the end of the fiscal battle. The Commons has yet to consider enabling legislation, tabled Tuesday, that spells out the plans in greater detail.

How long Prime Minister Stephen Harper can count on continued backing from Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe is uncertain.

Duceppe has served notice that the only reason he's supporting the budget is a Harper promise to address the so-called fiscal imbalance by working out a new deal over the next year to transfer more federal cash to the provinces.

The Liberals say it's a vain hope.

"The cupboard is empty as far as the fiscal imbalance is concerned," Grit finance critic John McCallum insisted this week.

"Quebecers will come to realize that the Bloc has betrayed their interests."

Recent opinion polls have put the Tories neck and neck with the Bloc in Quebec - a fact that federalists point to in explaining Duceppe's reluctance to topple the Harper government and force another election just five months after the last one.

The Bloc leader fired back this week, noting that the Liberals, currently embroiled in a party leadership race, have just as little interest in a snap election.

"The Liberals are very happy that we'll support the Tories," said Duceppe. "I know that."

Judy Wasylycia-Leis, the NDP finance critic, says her party will study the possibility of offering amendments to the enabling bill, which could take months to pass.

Beyond that, the NDP plans to step up the fight over the budget's controversial child-care provisions, which would see the Tories cancel payments to the provinces to create daycare spaces and instead pay a taxable $1,200 baby bonus directly to parents for each child under age six.

The Tories say parents should be free to make their own choices on how to spend the cash. Critics say the plan favours well-off, stay-at-home mothers over those who work outside the home.

The New Democrats intend to introduce legislation that would set out national standards for daycare and establish a fiscal framework for federal support, much in the way the Canada Health does for medicare.

The opposition can't actually force the Tories to spend money, Wasylycia-Leis acknowledged. But bringing in the bill could put "enormous pressure"on the government to change course.

The Liberals, too, are considering amendments to the budget enabling legislation, although they could come in the Senate, where Grits outnumber Tories by a wide margin.

Liberal Senator Jack Austin has also introduced a private member's bill in the upper house that would restore key income tax cuts implemented by the Paul Martin government.

The Liberals, in their last budget, lowered the tax rate to 15 per cent on the first $30,000 earned. The Tories raised it to 15.5 per cent, but balanced that with a one-percentage-point reduction in the GST.

If Austin can get his bill through the Senate, and send it on to the Commons, the effect would be to give MPs a choice between competing tax plans.

First, however, the Grits must overcome procedural objections in the upper house.

Senate Speaker Noel Kinsella, a Conservative, has yet to rule on whether the bill is in order.

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/NationalNewsArticle.htm?src=n051059A.xml

I don't give the Conservatives too long. The longest they lasted as a minority was 6 months and Harper can't break that he is too stupid too.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Re: Senate Changes to Budgets

It's an interesting situation — despite the fact that the Senate of Canada cannot introduce legislation that would appropriate new funds, or increase existing appropriations, there is precedent for the Red Chamber to introduce legislation to decrease those existing appropriations, and existing taxes. I would suggest that the Honourable Noël Kinsella, the Senator for the Division of Fredericton—York—Sunbury of New Brunswick and the Speaker of the Senate, would likely have to rule that the legislation is in order.

Then again, even if he doesn't, the rulings of the Speaker can be overturned by a majority of senators (unlike in the House of Commons, where a Speaker's rulings are absolute); I would suggest that, considering the foregoing, even if Senator Kinsella rules the legislation out of order, we could see an Act nonetheless come before the Senate, in terms of decreasing income taxes.
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
3,157
15
38
My take on it is Duceppe is doing what he has to do and calling Harper's bluff on correcting le déséquilibre fiscal. for now. He's not betraying his values, he's giving Harper a chance to screw up. Harper has to either slash-and-burn programs, lean on the "haves" (Ontario and Alberta I know. BC?) or some unsightly combination of both to come up with the cash.

Hope he's not counting on the Laffer curve.

I didn't know about the enabling legislation stage. cool. Once the confidence vote is out of the way the opposition can keep on stumping. and Duceppe will have to put up with the inevitable barbs about supporting the budget every time he criticizes a line item.

heh

hope he likes his job.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
I have a certain respect for Gilles Duceppe, M.P., le député de Laurier—Sainte-Marie¹ et le chef du Bloc Québécois, parce que, à mon avis, he is one of the only leaders of a party in modern times who had not lied to the people of Canada. Granted, he may not have as much to gain, and his circumstances may be quite unique from the other party leaders, but I respect him for his honesty.

:!: Revision : (1) Corrected a formatting error.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Jersay said:
OTTAWA (CP) - The minority Conservative government has won approval in principle for its first budget in the House of Commons, with a helping hand from the separatist Bloc Quebecois.


I agree that the bloc betray their values, but if i am not mistaken, if they would have opposed it, maybe it would have ignited another election, and another election right now, will make harper in majority, am i wrong?
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Re: RE: Bloc betray their values to the COns in Budget vote

FiveParadox said:
I have a certain respect for Gilles Duceppe, M.P., le député de Laurier—Sainte-Marie¹ et le chef du Bloc Québécois, parce que, à mon avis, he is one of the only leaders of a party in modern times who had not lied to the people of Canada. Granted, he may not have as much to gain, and his circumstances may be quite unique from the other party leaders, but I respect him for his honesty.

:!: Revision : (1) Corrected a formatting error.


By the way, i like the way you mix french and english :wink:

It is normal that duceppe is honest, the reason why is very simple, is because he knows he will never be in power, sorry but i dont trust any politicien. :lol:
 

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
RE: Bloc betray their val

Well, Duceppe didnt have a choice, and its politicly smart to support a budget that tables to start solving the ''fiscal imbalance'' as soon as budget 2007. It puts the pressure on Harper, and if he fails to deliver, no excuse will be valid.

Duceppe has always been a leader looking at the long term. If Harper fails to deliver, a referendum. If harper does deliver up to the expectations of most Québécers, then Duceppe looses his bet, but in the end all the provinces of Canada come out it stronger.

The fiscal imbalance, goes a long way in solving Canadian Unity.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
I watched the full buget and was shocked at the level the Conservatives went to the right wing in a minority government. I even saw how the Liberals could never vote for such a budget even the right wing of the liberal party would say the Cons have gone too far to the right and did not address enough issues according to the middle class and the working class of Canada, and the budget addressed largely corperate concerns and tax cuts while increasing the taxes of the average Canada, the 1% increase to income tax.

I watched in horror pretty much putting my NDP membership in the balance at times if Layton had made agreements with the cons on this budget. There had been rumours of such an agreement but a last minute cancel to the deal over consessions.

After the budget I watched the liberals as I could see on their face the horror of the budget, knowing they were not supporting it, and then looked on to see Jack Layton, I was happy to see he had the same feelings and felt even further betrayed by the minority governments extreme right wing move.

I thought perhaps the Bloq could never support such a budget being a centre leftist party, that any party in the centre, left or right could never support these idea's. Then gill came on... He sounded like a sell out and actted like one too. I always had respect for that party untill that day. I can't believe they can sell out the Quebec working and middle classes as they did.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
RE: Bloc's Position

I would suggest to the membership that the Government of Canada played the people of the Province of Québec, knowing that the Bloc Québécois would support a questionable budget, so long as they perceived this Government as being a stepping stone to the sovereignty of Québec. I think that the Government has done that, and the Bloc, unfortunately, acted precisely as I had thought they would.
 

gc

Electoral Member
May 9, 2006
931
20
18
RE: Bloc betray their val

I feel bad for Duceppe. After bringing down the liberal government last year, it wouldn't make much sense for him to bring down the conservative government so soon. Plus, he already said before the budget came out that he would support it. Unfortunately I think that was his mistake. He lost his ability to bargain for a better budget. I admit I haven't read the entire budget but it seems there is not much in there about the fiscal imbalance. There is also no kyoto, and an increase in income taxes for the lowest tax payers which is not in tune with the blocs more progressive values. Maybe next year he will negotiate first before blindly throwing his support behind harper, and if harper does not negotiate it will be much easier for duceppe to bring him down.
I'm glad the liberals did not support it either, as there was no compromise with them either. When the liberals had a minority they cut corporate taxes and spent more on the military in order to appease the conservatives who said they would support the budget and then turned around and voted against it in the end.
 

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
Finder said:
I watched the full buget and was shocked at the level the Conservatives went to the right wing in a minority government. I even saw how the Liberals could never vote for such a budget even the right wing of the liberal party would say the Cons have gone too far to the right and did not address enough issues according to the middle class and the working class of Canada, and the budget addressed largely corperate concerns and tax cuts while increasing the taxes of the average Canada, the 1% increase to income tax.

What the hell are you talking about? He leveled the tax cuts for everyone. That 1% ''increase'' is just canceling out Martin's tax cut that was exclusivly for the poor. Unless, of course you think the average Canadian makes less then 20k a year. I find myself saving 500$ this year, and almost 1k next year.

Finder said:
I thought perhaps the Bloq could never support such a budget being a centre leftist party, that any party in the centre, left or right could never support these idea's. Then gill came on... He sounded like a sell out and actted like one too. I always had respect for that party untill that day. I can't believe they can sell out the Quebec working and middle classes as they did.

To say something so ridiculous is knowing nothing about Québec. Putting a time table to solving the fiscal imbalance is much more important to Québécers then minor tax cuts.
 

Numure

Council Member
Apr 30, 2004
1,063
0
36
Montréal, Québec
Re: RE: Bloc betray their val

gc said:
I admit I haven't read the entire budget but it seems there is not much in there about the fiscal imbalance.

Then don't comment if you havnt read it. With the budget, there was a 150 page booklet tabling how the Conservatives plan to solve the fiscal imbalance. They even fixed a date, the next federal budget(2007), to start fixing the problem.

That's why Duceppe voted for it. And the only reason why he did. The fiscal imbalance is one of the priorities for most Québécers. Might not be for Canadians, but is for us.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
The Liberals and NDP wanted a multi-billion dollar bureaucratic boondoogle for child care. One of those expensive, convoluted, kleptofriendly institutions where no one could really figure out where the money would go. The only people who would win would be forensic auditors and people getting paid to answer questions from angry unhappy Canadians.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Numure, I would agree with Finder in terms of the budget introduced by the Government of Canada. The Kyoto Accord has been entirely abandoned, and Environment Canada has been decimated. The Kelowna Accord was abandoned, too; at first, I supported this budget. However, given the information I now have in terms of Ways and Means Motion No. 1, I no longer support, in general, the budgetary policy of this Government at this time.