bible passages that have helped you overcome something
- Thread starter proud christian
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The Atheists Wager:
"It is better to live your life as if there are no Gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, He will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in Him."
Actually, that would more accurately be termed the Agnostics Wager, I suppose... :?
"It is better to live your life as if there are no Gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, He will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in Him."
Actually, that would more accurately be termed the Agnostics Wager, I suppose... :?
It's over 1,800 years since the Christian philosopher Origen argued that the literal terrors of hell were false, but that they ought to be publicised anyway, so as to scare simpler believers.
It's pitiable that, in the C21st, people are still that gullible.
It's pitiable that, in the C21st, people are still that gullible.
It's pitiable that some of you are assuming that the "fundies" represent all, or even most Christians. Much like not all Muslims are extremists who fly planes into buildings and bomb train stations in London, not all Christians are hateful of everything that doesn't fall exactly into their system of beliefs.
Same can be said for a whole variety of groups: feminists, environmentalists, socialists, etc. etc. etc.
The group and ideals aren't bad, persay, but there are always a few loud, outspoken and controversial individuals who give the entire movement a bad name.
Same can be said for a whole variety of groups: feminists, environmentalists, socialists, etc. etc. etc.
The group and ideals aren't bad, persay, but there are always a few loud, outspoken and controversial individuals who give the entire movement a bad name.
Re: RE: bible passages that have helped you overcome somethi
Answer - these regular Christians should then speak out against the disgraceful unequal treatment of women in their religion (not supported by the bible), the disgaceful lack of action taken by the Pope in regard to pedephilic Priests (not supported by the bible), the disallowance of letting Priests marry (not supported by the bible) and the rules against abortion (not supported by the bible) and the lack of support by the church for social reform in Latin America (not supported by the bible). It would appear that a lot of regular Christians have let some asshole in Rome dictate away their moral compasses.
Mad_Hatter said:
Answer - these regular Christians should then speak out against the disgraceful unequal treatment of women in their religion (not supported by the bible), the disgaceful lack of action taken by the Pope in regard to pedephilic Priests (not supported by the bible), the disallowance of letting Priests marry (not supported by the bible) and the rules against abortion (not supported by the bible) and the lack of support by the church for social reform in Latin America (not supported by the bible). It would appear that a lot of regular Christians have let some asshole in Rome dictate away their moral compasses.
This is what make these proselyting Christians such a joke.
I know of no passage that promises that nonbelievers will ask true believers “why your life is so happy and fulfilling,.”
I do, however, recall a section near the end of the Sermon on the Mount:
Instead, in the face of a bit of opposition, they cheerfully declare:
I know of no passage that promises that nonbelievers will ask true believers “why your life is so happy and fulfilling,.”
I do, however, recall a section near the end of the Sermon on the Mount:
Instead, in the face of a bit of opposition, they cheerfully declare:
They can’t even stay in fecking character on a bulletin board!
it seems as though you are equating "Catholicism" to mean "All Christian religions". Catholics do not equal all Christians. Again, you are painting us all with the same brush.
In my church, we have two ministers, one is a woman. I'm not sure what other "disgraceful unequal treatment of women in their religion" you're referring too. If you want to discuss disrcimination against women in a religion then Islam is a much better target; where many condone female genital mutiliation, polygamy, and not even allowing women to show their faces in public. No one seems to be up in arms about this.
As for your claim about pedophilic priests: obviously that is a horrible and disgusting thing. You should perhaps know that the percentage of priests who are pedophiles mirror the percentage of all men who are pedophiles; so it seems that this is not a problem of the church, but rather a problem of society. But once again, I'm not Catholic... My religion doesn't have priests who commit such disgusting sins nor does it condone pedophilia in any way. It does not have priests who are not permitted to marry; nor is it really involved in Latin America.
For what it's worth, there is no "asshole in Rome" who is dictating my moral compass; in fact 52% of the Christian faith does not have their moral compass directed by said asshole.
In my church, we have two ministers, one is a woman. I'm not sure what other "disgraceful unequal treatment of women in their religion" you're referring too. If you want to discuss disrcimination against women in a religion then Islam is a much better target; where many condone female genital mutiliation, polygamy, and not even allowing women to show their faces in public. No one seems to be up in arms about this.
As for your claim about pedophilic priests: obviously that is a horrible and disgusting thing. You should perhaps know that the percentage of priests who are pedophiles mirror the percentage of all men who are pedophiles; so it seems that this is not a problem of the church, but rather a problem of society. But once again, I'm not Catholic... My religion doesn't have priests who commit such disgusting sins nor does it condone pedophilia in any way. It does not have priests who are not permitted to marry; nor is it really involved in Latin America.
For what it's worth, there is no "asshole in Rome" who is dictating my moral compass; in fact 52% of the Christian faith does not have their moral compass directed by said asshole.
polygamy...morons oh I mean mormons..again..a group of old men, having their way with childern :roll: hiding under the guise of religion. By the way would you mind naming your church.
No problem.
The church I'm referring to is a modern Mennonite Church. (I hope no one sees the word "Mennonite" and immediately assumes I'm amish here.) I suppose I'm exaggerating a little, that was a few years ago before I moved to Nova Scotia. I haven't gone to church a whole lot since I've been here, for various reasons.
It still bares pointing out that there are many protestant churches who certainly don't fall into the set mold of traditional Catholism, which many of you seem to be disillusioned about.
The church I'm referring to is a modern Mennonite Church. (I hope no one sees the word "Mennonite" and immediately assumes I'm amish here.) I suppose I'm exaggerating a little, that was a few years ago before I moved to Nova Scotia. I haven't gone to church a whole lot since I've been here, for various reasons.
It still bares pointing out that there are many protestant churches who certainly don't fall into the set mold of traditional Catholism, which many of you seem to be disillusioned about.
Here is a bible passage that's brought me great comfort:
Kind of blows the shit out of the Christians' arguments for a traditional definition of marriage...funny innit?
Kind of blows the shit out of the Christians' arguments for a traditional definition of marriage...funny innit?
I am not sure what a moderate mennonite church would be, but I will read up on it. I do however remember reading about mennonites offering up cash to college boys, to have sex with their daughters, the gene pool was getting rather narrow. I am not saying this is your church or your way of thinking. My point is if your going to tell people (I don't include you here) what they should believe and follow, don't ya think the last thing you should be is a hypocrite 8O
It isn't just Catholicism, it's fundamentalism in all of its forms. I don't care if you're a Wiccan, if you start telling me that I have to do things your way because your god said so, there will be a problem.
Most Catholics I know aren't fundamentalists, BTW. They, including a priest, tend to agree with me on the issues I go after the pope on.
Peapod, I'm not familiar with this at all, I encourage you to try to dig up some news story on it. Considering the beliefs of the church, I am most surprised and disgusted. All I can say about that is... obviously there are some bad apples in every group. Because one or two individuals committed these things doesn't mean the religion condones the practice in any form.
I am sure I could find similar evils committed by one or two people in any group you put in front of me.
I'll also tell you, that for the most part Mennonites keep to themselves, active conversion and evangelism isn't really our style.
I never try to force my beliefs on others; in fact I find it very rewarding and enriching to learn about many different faiths and beliefs.
I am sure I could find similar evils committed by one or two people in any group you put in front of me.
I'll also tell you, that for the most part Mennonites keep to themselves, active conversion and evangelism isn't really our style.
I never try to force my beliefs on others; in fact I find it very rewarding and enriching to learn about many different faiths and beliefs.
...and Mennonites don't baptize at birth, which is something I can respect...if only they weren't totally immersed in their religion all of their lives, maybe some would have a chance to make an independent choice for what they will believe...
I promise you Vanni, I have made my own choices regarding my belief systems. And, like I have said before, I often have trouble reconciling my own personal values with those of the church.
Religious and "Free Thinker" or "Critical Thinker" aren't always mutually exclusive.
Religious and "Free Thinker" or "Critical Thinker" aren't always mutually exclusive.
Re: RE: bible passages that have helped you overcome somethi
So, your family left that decision entirely up to you, without trying to influence you one way or the other?
The belief in an all-knowing, all-seeing, invisible man that causes everything to happen sort of precludes that claim...
Your god and your religion cannot stand up to the least scrutiny or critical analysis...
Peppy brought up Pascal's Wager in another thread...this has been the resource most often used by Christians to justify their beliefs for hundreds of years...yet the logic that it is based upon is deeply flawed...
If you are capable of critical thought, as you have claimed, then I suggest you do some research beyond your bible and understand what the free thinkers of the world have said throughout history, and why they have said it...
The following site is as good a place to start your research as any...
http://www.infidels.org/index.html
Mad_Hatter said:
So, your family left that decision entirely up to you, without trying to influence you one way or the other?
Mad_Hatter said:
The belief in an all-knowing, all-seeing, invisible man that causes everything to happen sort of precludes that claim...
Your god and your religion cannot stand up to the least scrutiny or critical analysis...
Peppy brought up Pascal's Wager in another thread...this has been the resource most often used by Christians to justify their beliefs for hundreds of years...yet the logic that it is based upon is deeply flawed...
If you are capable of critical thought, as you have claimed, then I suggest you do some research beyond your bible and understand what the free thinkers of the world have said throughout history, and why they have said it...
The following site is as good a place to start your research as any...
http://www.infidels.org/index.html
Oh yeah...and neither are secular and spirtitual or atheist and moral mutually exclusive terms...just thought I'd throw that out there...
Probably the biggest misunderstanding about the Mennonite (and the Amish) is in thinking them each one singular entity.Vanni Fucci said:
First, both are broken into Old Order (the ones in black buttonless garb, driving a horse-drawn buggy, just like in “Witness”) and the New Order (with not that different a visible lifestyle from yourself).
Since one basic tenant of Anabaptist (Mennonite, Amish, & Hutterite) belief is the disavowel of a central religious authority (like a Pope) their churches are fraught with schisms — in many cases, over acceptance or rejection of modern trends.
Still throughout these schisms and disagreements on dogma, they have managed to maintain civil discourse between the churches, and combine efforts for religious publishing, education, and especially emergency relief work through their Mennonite Central Committee. (One of Canada’s first civilian organizations reported to be responding to the recent Hurricane Katrina crisis.)
What I find most appealing about the Mennonite faithful as they interact with non-believers, is that, with the exception of the usual missionary work in poverty areas around the world, they do not tend to prostylizes their beliefs.
I live where Mennonites are rather thick on the ground, and they have never tried to coerce me to accept their beliefs.
At least, I suppose I should add, they don't outside their church functions.
GL Schmitt said:
I have to agree with you there...my family is Mennonite, and they've not tried to convert me...although they have expressed extreme displeasure at some of my choices over the years...
Truth is though, that I haven't had a whole lot to do with that side of the family, as it is all too obvious that we are on divergent paths on our spiritual journey...