BC Election
- Thread starter passpatoo
- Start date
Keep on them. Campbell seems to be softening on the 60% thing. For the result to be as high as it is considering that the campaign to sell it was underfunded, under-advertised and the STV issue did not receive the press attention it deserves is very telling. If it had the proper publicity, it would have received far more than 60% of the vote.
Re: RE: BC Election
WTF are you talking about - "two-faced"???
I am merely pointing out that you b*tch about NOW how the Libs got less than 50% of the popular vote, but did you b*tch when the same thing went in favour of the NDP??
I bet not.
Talk about "two-faced".....
no1important said:
WTF are you talking about - "two-faced"???
I am merely pointing out that you b*tch about NOW how the Libs got less than 50% of the popular vote, but did you b*tch when the same thing went in favour of the NDP??
I bet not.
Talk about "two-faced".....
I did. Well not the BC NDP, but I've been bitching at the MB NDP to bring in PR for the last two elections.
Re: RE: BC Election
Actually I did. I have always believed in Full Proportional representation. STV was not what I wanted but a start.
Why do you make assumptions like saying "I Bet Not", in bold letters?
If you knew me (maybe you do as I used to go to Brockelhurst High and Cariboo College in Kamloops) you would know after every election I bitch about the seat distribution compared to popular vote. I do it Federally and Provincially, reguardless of who wins.
Back in 96 I actually Voted for Marijuana Party as a protest, provincially. I was ticked at local NDP candiate and could not bring my self to vote for Campbell.
I believe you should only get as many seats as you get in the vote. 57% of vote = 57% of seats not 97%+, likewise Chretien had majority's with 39% as did Clark here in BC and yet they got majorities. I believe that is not right.
If you would of read my whole response I did point out Campbell recieved more votes in 96 but Clark
won the election with 39% if vote. That's is not right either.
So you can complain that greens got 8-10 % of vote and no seats but I can't complain the Libs got a majority government with less than 50% of vote?
Well we can agree to disagree then. I am not going to be dragged into a pissing match. :wink:
Ten Packs said:
Actually I did. I have always believed in Full Proportional representation. STV was not what I wanted but a start.
Why do you make assumptions like saying "I Bet Not", in bold letters?
If you knew me (maybe you do as I used to go to Brockelhurst High and Cariboo College in Kamloops) you would know after every election I bitch about the seat distribution compared to popular vote. I do it Federally and Provincially, reguardless of who wins.
Back in 96 I actually Voted for Marijuana Party as a protest, provincially. I was ticked at local NDP candiate and could not bring my self to vote for Campbell.
I believe you should only get as many seats as you get in the vote. 57% of vote = 57% of seats not 97%+, likewise Chretien had majority's with 39% as did Clark here in BC and yet they got majorities. I believe that is not right.
If you would of read my whole response I did point out Campbell recieved more votes in 96 but Clark
won the election with 39% if vote. That's is not right either.
So you can complain that greens got 8-10 % of vote and no seats but I can't complain the Libs got a majority government with less than 50% of vote?
Well we can agree to disagree then. I am not going to be dragged into a pissing match. :wink:
Re: RE: BC Election
And if YOU knew ME - you might realize that just because I favour the Liberals over the financially inept NDP, doesnt mean that I cant recognize the same unfairness in the system as you proport to do - DID I NOT SAY that it wasn't right???
Oh, perhaps you are among those thinking only NDP'ers have either the moral and ethical standards to recognize inequities - or the brains? Those that can actually balance a cheque-book are simply heartless bast*tards - just selfish "puppy-kickers"?
Think again.....
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO MADE THE CONNECTION - that because this guy isnt NDP, he can't "possibly" be for Proportional Representation. How presumptuous, sir..... I take umbrage.
Oh, and btw, just so you realize how freaking LITTLE! you know about me - I haven't had the guts to vote Liberal, nor the stupidity to vote NPD, so I have voted with my "Heart", to the Marijuana Party - for the last TWO elections! Yes, I am one of the 138, for the Kamloops/North Thompson, if you look it up in the paper. I figure they can at least use the moral support.
I wouldn't p*ss in Krueger's ear if his brains were on fire.
And ps - no, I do not partake.... at least not for a lot of years now. However, the MP have some pretty smart folks these days, and there's a lot more to a horse than a nice saddle.
no1important said:
And if YOU knew ME - you might realize that just because I favour the Liberals over the financially inept NDP, doesnt mean that I cant recognize the same unfairness in the system as you proport to do - DID I NOT SAY that it wasn't right???
Oh, perhaps you are among those thinking only NDP'ers have either the moral and ethical standards to recognize inequities - or the brains? Those that can actually balance a cheque-book are simply heartless bast*tards - just selfish "puppy-kickers"?
Think again.....
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO MADE THE CONNECTION - that because this guy isnt NDP, he can't "possibly" be for Proportional Representation. How presumptuous, sir..... I take umbrage.
Oh, and btw, just so you realize how freaking LITTLE! you know about me - I haven't had the guts to vote Liberal, nor the stupidity to vote NPD, so I have voted with my "Heart", to the Marijuana Party - for the last TWO elections! Yes, I am one of the 138, for the Kamloops/North Thompson, if you look it up in the paper. I figure they can at least use the moral support.
I wouldn't p*ss in Krueger's ear if his brains were on fire.
And ps - no, I do not partake.... at least not for a lot of years now. However, the MP have some pretty smart folks these days, and there's a lot more to a horse than a nice saddle.
I am glad you voted for Keenan Todd.
I am also glad you voted for who you believe in. I wish more people did that. Thats why with STV or full Proportional they may get a seat or two.
I see only 55.6% voter turnout yesterday. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.
I am also glad you voted for who you believe in. I wish more people did that. Thats why with STV or full Proportional they may get a seat or two.
I see only 55.6% voter turnout yesterday. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.
Thank you. Oh, and we would NOT have gone to school together - I daresay you went to school well after I did, and I grew up in Saskatchewan, Oregon and the west-side of Vancouver.
Then Vernon, to raise a family, getting transferred here in '87 - which now makes Kamloops the place I have lived the longest...... a formidable concept to mull over, indeed.
Then Vernon, to raise a family, getting transferred here in '87 - which now makes Kamloops the place I have lived the longest...... a formidable concept to mull over, indeed.
Re: RE: BC Election
It was a pretty "lack-luster" election - the HOT issues just never seemed to get hot - Campbell's bunch kept the lid on, and James' bunch couldn't get out of 2nd gear.[/i]
no1important said:
It was a pretty "lack-luster" election - the HOT issues just never seemed to get hot - Campbell's bunch kept the lid on, and James' bunch couldn't get out of 2nd gear.[/i]
I thought BC Rail would of been an issue but it never was. There really was not one big issue, just numerous little ones. It really was pretty lacklustre.
Not to mention the attempt to privatize the Coq and ICBC, the successful attempt to "blend-off" the Ferries, and the decrease in Social Services, especially for the elderly.
(I just lost my Mom in February, after an illness of more than 4 YEARS! - Cripes, I could write a book.... )
But that doesnt mean I want to go back to the financial disaster of the NDP - I REMEMEBER saying "Goodbye" to folks, good honest working tradesmen (like when you were doing the framing/decking stuff, Rev!).
They just said "there's nothing moving in BC except the hands on the clock!" So what do you expect them to do?
And I hope no one tries to tell me this was all due to the Feds gushing money - that's only in the last year, or less. We have been on the rise since not long after the Libs took over - Goddamn RIGHTS it hurt! Goddamn RIGHTS some of it was wrong and unfair!
But, WHO was going to change things?
I would have gladly voted for a better idea (actually, I did, though it amounted to throwing my vote away). Its the same old story in BC - we don't vote for the ones we think are "better" - just the ones we think are the "least bad".
That's why I said screw it, and have started voting for the underdog (a REAL underdog - LOL!)
(I just lost my Mom in February, after an illness of more than 4 YEARS! - Cripes, I could write a book.... )
But that doesnt mean I want to go back to the financial disaster of the NDP - I REMEMEBER saying "Goodbye" to folks, good honest working tradesmen (like when you were doing the framing/decking stuff, Rev!).
They just said "there's nothing moving in BC except the hands on the clock!" So what do you expect them to do?
And I hope no one tries to tell me this was all due to the Feds gushing money - that's only in the last year, or less. We have been on the rise since not long after the Libs took over - Goddamn RIGHTS it hurt! Goddamn RIGHTS some of it was wrong and unfair!
But, WHO was going to change things?
I would have gladly voted for a better idea (actually, I did, though it amounted to throwing my vote away). Its the same old story in BC - we don't vote for the ones we think are "better" - just the ones we think are the "least bad".
That's why I said screw it, and have started voting for the underdog (a REAL underdog - LOL!)
I'm going to change the topic a little bit.
Why is it that NDP ties to unions somehow help the liberals?
The BC liberals have just as many ties to corporations, i.e. the board of trade.
As one elderly woman was quoted as saying on a CBC program, "i'd much rather a party have ties to unions that serve ordinary working people then a party that is tied to corporations who serve only to satisfy their shareholders"
At the very least the two cancel each other out I would think... although in my opinion I find the ties to big unions just fine. I'm sure on the right, people believe ties to big business is fine. I'm sure people on the right will argue that ties to big business are good for the economy and yadda yadda. Let's just skip that part and not argue the virtues of our favorite parties incongruous ties. Let's just agree that both the BCLibs and BCNDP have ties, and not use those ties as swear words and mud to sling on them.
On another note, I admit that I have only been fully interested in politics during the BCLiberals term in office.
So when all these people make references to the NDP's screw ups, and the horror, I can't relate. I've only seen a drunken premier, stories of seniors mistreated, slick rhetoric, privitization of BC's assets, less school staff and more jammed inefficient classrooms, a lower minimum wage, steady inflation. I have plenty of reasons therefore to disapprove of the current Gov't.
All I remember of the NDP (keep in my mind i wasn't paying attention much) is that they made fast ferries making BC jobs by having them made in BC, and the ferries turned out to work fine, but the routes they travelled did not allow safely for the speeds which was the purpose of their creation. At the slower speeds, they were less efficient then our old ferries. So we had no use for a huge financial investment, scandal I guess... To me it sounds like an honest mistake, there was no ill intent by the NDP, they tried having them made domestically and it just didn't work out for them, the darned things left too big a wake. It wasn't a total loss you know... the BC workers who built the ferries benefited, but most importantly there was no ill intent. Then the porch-casino liscence fiasco with Glen Clark. Ever since I read that the charges against him were dropped, I stopped caring about the whole deal. Keep in mind folks that in 2001 i was pro-Campbell. I told my friends to vote for him, I had the BCLibs magnet on my fridge. I didn't know a lick about him, but The Province newspaper said the NDP was evil, and the BCLibs ran very good propoganda on the TV during the campaign. One of the reasons that The Province newspaper hates the NDP is because during the 1996 campaign they bought a number of new printers that would reduce their workforce and payroll expenditures and subsequently increase their efficiency/profit. They purchased these despite the fact that there were laws against the implementation of the printers, laws protecting the workers that would have to be laid off in order to implement the machines. But The Province newspaper was confident that the BCLiberals would get elected, the law would be thrown out, and there would be no problem with laying off workers to install these more effective printing machines. And then the NDP won, and The Province newspaper had these expensive, useless machines. I think any big business resents the NDP for upholding/creating laws which prevent "business" such as the printing machines. Indeed, if the economy is improved by the firing of workers and implementing of machines then yes, the NDP is bad for the economy. In such a situation though, just who does the economy benefit?
Now besides dropped charges against the ex-premier, (versus jail time by our current premier), a well-intended goof-up with ferries, what exactly is it that is so horrible about the NDP ?? Let's keep it to the 1997-2001 government. What was so bad about them?
Why is it that NDP ties to unions somehow help the liberals?
The BC liberals have just as many ties to corporations, i.e. the board of trade.
As one elderly woman was quoted as saying on a CBC program, "i'd much rather a party have ties to unions that serve ordinary working people then a party that is tied to corporations who serve only to satisfy their shareholders"
At the very least the two cancel each other out I would think... although in my opinion I find the ties to big unions just fine. I'm sure on the right, people believe ties to big business is fine. I'm sure people on the right will argue that ties to big business are good for the economy and yadda yadda. Let's just skip that part and not argue the virtues of our favorite parties incongruous ties. Let's just agree that both the BCLibs and BCNDP have ties, and not use those ties as swear words and mud to sling on them.
On another note, I admit that I have only been fully interested in politics during the BCLiberals term in office.
So when all these people make references to the NDP's screw ups, and the horror, I can't relate. I've only seen a drunken premier, stories of seniors mistreated, slick rhetoric, privitization of BC's assets, less school staff and more jammed inefficient classrooms, a lower minimum wage, steady inflation. I have plenty of reasons therefore to disapprove of the current Gov't.
All I remember of the NDP (keep in my mind i wasn't paying attention much) is that they made fast ferries making BC jobs by having them made in BC, and the ferries turned out to work fine, but the routes they travelled did not allow safely for the speeds which was the purpose of their creation. At the slower speeds, they were less efficient then our old ferries. So we had no use for a huge financial investment, scandal I guess... To me it sounds like an honest mistake, there was no ill intent by the NDP, they tried having them made domestically and it just didn't work out for them, the darned things left too big a wake. It wasn't a total loss you know... the BC workers who built the ferries benefited, but most importantly there was no ill intent. Then the porch-casino liscence fiasco with Glen Clark. Ever since I read that the charges against him were dropped, I stopped caring about the whole deal. Keep in mind folks that in 2001 i was pro-Campbell. I told my friends to vote for him, I had the BCLibs magnet on my fridge. I didn't know a lick about him, but The Province newspaper said the NDP was evil, and the BCLibs ran very good propoganda on the TV during the campaign. One of the reasons that The Province newspaper hates the NDP is because during the 1996 campaign they bought a number of new printers that would reduce their workforce and payroll expenditures and subsequently increase their efficiency/profit. They purchased these despite the fact that there were laws against the implementation of the printers, laws protecting the workers that would have to be laid off in order to implement the machines. But The Province newspaper was confident that the BCLiberals would get elected, the law would be thrown out, and there would be no problem with laying off workers to install these more effective printing machines. And then the NDP won, and The Province newspaper had these expensive, useless machines. I think any big business resents the NDP for upholding/creating laws which prevent "business" such as the printing machines. Indeed, if the economy is improved by the firing of workers and implementing of machines then yes, the NDP is bad for the economy. In such a situation though, just who does the economy benefit?
Now besides dropped charges against the ex-premier, (versus jail time by our current premier), a well-intended goof-up with ferries, what exactly is it that is so horrible about the NDP ?? Let's keep it to the 1997-2001 government. What was so bad about them?
Well first oak, I would not call the liberals, liberals in BC. They are old socreds, hiding under a different party. They are about money at any cost, and pandering and boot licking any company with greenbacks. At least for the next four years they will not be free to slash and burn.
Agreed, the BC Liberals are very right-wing. I don't like them, unfortunately people, especially in the rural areas here in BC (but also in many parts of Vancouver), tend to be conservative. Which sucks, I'm in a riding where the Liberals always win, pretty much, I don't like them. Unfortunately my vote got buried under all the conservative people. That's one reason I want proportinal representation so badly.
Please don't think voting for a non major party is just throwing away your vote. You voted , unlike 54.4% of eligable people who did not.
It just seems the majority of people (Not you) are "scared" or "brainwashed" into thinking a vote for a small party or independant is a waste. That is a wrong way of thinking.
Even if your candidate does not get elected, you voted and your vote was not thrown away. If more people voted like you, we would have some lesser known parties and more independants elected. Or at the very least it would make election night more interesting. A vote for an Independant , Marijuana party, Work Less Party etc, is one less vote for the government.
They should make Voter education mandatory in High School, wether it is a stand alone course or in Social Studies. But if that were to happen the voting age should be lowered to 16 so grade 11 and 12's can actually participate in what they are taught and hopefully it keeps them interested in voting for years to come.
Something needs to be done as it seems each election pretty well the voter turnout continues to shrink.
I'm continuously reading how connected the NDP is to the unions and yet [ unless I was paying little attention ] I only really noticed 2 unions stand behind the NDP throughout the election campaignsand why not since their unions were the target of the Liberals. I am union and my union was nowhere to be seen or heard throughout the campaign. Also I would like to point out that in the last 4 years of the NDP reign, I received all of a 0-0-02 % raise and a 0-0-0-%. It's a bit tiring hearing how connected the unions are to the NDP and how they're so pampered because of the NDP. A big enough union anywhere can stand a chance to bring down or supposedly hold hostage any government including the Liberals.
I'm continuously reading how connected the NDP is to the unions and yet [ unless I was paying little attention ] I only really noticed 2 unions stand behind the NDP throughout the election campaignsand why not since their unions were the target of the Liberals. I am union and my union was nowhere to be seen or heard throughout the campaign. Also I would like to point out that in the last 4 years of the NDP reign, I received all of a 0-0-02 % raise and a 0-0-0-%. It's a bit tiring hearing how connected the unions are to the NDP and how they're so pampered because of the NDP. A big enough union anywhere can stand a chance to bring down or supposedly hold hostage any government including the Liberals.