Anyone dislike Bush, but voting for Harper?

[Freethinker]

I was originally interested to see if those who dislike Bush are still voting for Haper, especially after seeing the obvious parallels. From those who didn't see parallels, the differences cited seemed mostly along the lines of presentation style and intellegnece (Harper is smarter and slicker). So is this it? Bush policies are ok, its just presentation style that is disliked?

Again some of the Parallels:

Marijuanna: Both Bush and Harper want it Criminalized.

Same Sex Marriage: Both Bush and Harper indicated they were against it before their election. Part of the official Conservative Platform.

Judiciary: Both Bush and Harper complain about activist judges granting minority rights.

Politcs merging with religion: Many candites in Harpers campaign from the far religious right: Harper echoing Bush with the God Bless (insert you geography here).
http://www.voteholland.com/video060110.html

Environment: Both Anti Kyoto.

Defense: Harper essentially supports everything Bush wants. The only thing is he said he wont send troops to Iraq, because that would cost him the election.

Taxation: Both largely aiming their cuts at the wealthy.
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So balancing the parallels, there only seem to be differences in style and intelligence, both in harpers favor.

I don't think there is any doubt these policies are cut from the same cloth. Yeah neither of them is likely to be able to remove a womens right to choose, but they are both social regressives. There may be smaller moves to limit plan b birth control just like the USA.

Kyoto may be flawed, but is simply represents an anti-environmental philosophy of these men. Any choice between the corporate bottom line and environment, will be decided in favor of the corporate bottom line.

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Maybe I should have asked a different question. Is anyone progressive voting for Harper. Someone who is in favor of legallized SSM, decriminalizing marijuana, concerned about the environment. Anyone like this voting for Harper?

 

[jimmoyer]

I don't find those parallels to have much depth.

Despite my backtracking
on the Judicial Activism issue it's still
valid to point out how elected legislatures have
abdicated their elected responsibility to write
the law to Judges who are only supposed to apply
the law. That's simply a legitimate point and
legislatures should be taken to task for this abdication.

And Kyoto will be served better by the disagreement
about it's very flawed nature. How often are you
disgusted by politicians who talk the talk but don't
walk the talk ?

But the parallels are only surface parallels Harper
has to Bush.

Most assuredly he will be Canadian, and certainly
has the intelligence of self-respect not to take
marching orders from any country.

And it's a little
gutsy to offend the accepted mind-think of the
liberal zeitgeist. So welcome a little energy instead
of the stale status quo you bewail.

I just think the parallels are shallow.
Different dynamics, different countries.

 

[I think not]

Environment: Both Anti Kyoto.

And since when is being opposed to money transfer schemes without adressing the real issue is considered a bad thing?

Even your "guru" of the environment, David Suzuki, has reduced the "grand" idea of the Kyoto Protocol, to a "necessary first step"

 

[Freethinker]

Re: RE: Anyone dislike Bush, but voting for Harper?

I don't find those parallels to have much depth.

But the parallels are only surface parallels Harper
has to Bush.

What area do they differ? The only answers I get are on presentations style and intelligence. I readily concede that. It is Idealogy that concerns me. Having someone smarter and slicker working against my ideals is no consolation.

Are trying to say harper really isn't a social conservative? I am socially progressive, he strikes me as being the polar opposite of what I want in a Candidate.

If I had to boil it down, Harper to me represents Social stasis or even regression combined with corporate supremacy. These are the directions he will move as much as he is able.

 

[jimmoyer]

Well such parallels are shallow because your
country's politics have a different dynamic than
America politics.

Also such parallels are shallow if you presume
any Canadian is so stupid as to follow marching orders
from another country.

I have a distaste for presuming your opponent
is stupid. That's usually a mistake. It's usually
false psychologically too.

They say the same crap about Tony Blair.

I think its a sophomoric complaint, and psychologically
inept.

 

[concerned]

I posted this on another website http://www.canadiandemocraticmovement.ca/index.html in response to an American's posting who praised Harper and his support of American Right Wing Idealisms including US invasion of Iraq:

And what an intelligent defense of American hegemony we have here from our American friend. Of course Americans think that the war in Iraq freed 25 million people from an evil government, how else could they justify such atrocities against the Iraqi people? And what of the sanctions that they have imposed and are enforcing against this country now? How are those sanctions helping displaced and homeless Iraqi people whose standard of living has dropped to .... what ???

Through the years, the American government has gained control of the American media and has managed to stifle anyone who speaks out against American policy. True democracy allows for freedom of speech. Something that does not exist in the US of A, and something that we still manage to enjoy here in Canada at least to some extent. Will we if Harper gets into power?

We as Canadians have been able to piece together the motives of Bush and his administration in terms of its war crimes against Iraq. Oil that is, black gold. Neo-conservative Americans like our friend posting on this website seek justification of those war crimes to fuel his big business beliefs. They also support a Harper government as a way to further control our resources, just as it did through the NAFTA agreement carved out by the Mulroney government. And why not give away our power and resources in perpetuity? The Canadian public was not stupid enough to believe at the time that we were getting the fair end of the NAFTA agreement. The agreement while in being structured was extremely controversial. Looking back at it, do any Canadians out there think that we are getting the fair end of this agreement now?

Through the ages America has supported fascist governments (both militarily and economically) in favour of quick and easy implementation of US economic development that favours the elite rich of the target country and the American developers that rape the lands and the people of its natural resources. Take many of the countries of Latin America for example, where resources are rich and the general population is deathly poor, while American multi-nationals reap the profits.

America has a specific agenda for military and economic dominance. It has consistently supported corrupt governments including supporting Saddam Hussein with economic and military aid before he "disobeyed" American orders. It as only when Saddam decided not to go with the US wishes that he was portrayed to the American public as "evil". Millions of dollars of military aid had already been spent in Iraq in support of Hussein. Just as it had in Columbia, East Timor, and Turkey where the atrocities of war resulted in mass suffering of the general populations there.

Using self-defense as the motive to strike in Iraq, the American public was fed constant crap by its media. Including the accusations that Iraq held weapons of mass destruction and that the Iraq regime was connected with Osama Bin Laden in his attacks against the US. I have some very intelligent friends there that had the wool pulled over their eyes quite nicely by American media. But no evidence to support those accusations against Iraq was found before, during, or after the Iraq war.

In short, it is very clear to me why this American friend is posting on this website in support of Harper. The right wing here in Canada would be in favour with the agenda of the US administration for economic dominance, which inevitably includes control of Canadian resources. And with Harper in power, Bush will get it. At the expense of most ordinary Canadians and at the economic gain of a few elite Albertans, including Mr. Harper himself.

 

[jimmoyer]

I'm an American Conservative who finds that post
to be full of bologna (baloney?) !!!

Reason being is that I'd support the Liberal Party's
1 percent income tax over Harper's cut in the GST (goods and services tax).

But saying Harper is taking marching orders from
another country is the same crap they say about
Tony Blair in England.

I think it's psychologically immature to always
depict your opponent as stupid, or as a puppet.

The truth is never near that.

But people willingly believe it because it is convenient
to their bias to believe it.

 

[Freethinker]

Re: RE: Anyone dislike Bush, but voting for Harper?

Well such parallels are shallow because your
country's politics have a different dynamic than
America politics.

Also such parallels are shallow if you presume
any Canadian is so stupid as to follow marching orders
from another country.

I have a distaste for presuming your opponent
is stupid. That's usually a mistake. It's usually
false psychologically too.

They say the same crap about Tony Blair.

I think its a sophomoric complaint, and psychologically
inept.

Are you reading something I didn't write. I stated above, I readily concede Harpers intelligence. The parallels don't indicate that he will let the GOP tell him what to do. It indicates an Idealogy that I don't favor. Please read my last post again.

Edit: And for the record I have a lot of admiration for Blair, I was ashamed right after 911 when Chretien waffled for days and said nothing supportive. Blair spoke up right away and said, we stand with you. It was a sad day in Canadian politics that we were so mealy mouthed in our support.

 

[jimmoyer]

Sorry Freethinker, you did not say Harper
is receiving marching orders from Bush

I chose to push the issue that might lie underneath
those parallels and often it is just what people think:
That Harper like Tony Blair of Britian will just be a puppet taking his marching orders.

To me, as I said, it is just psychologically immature
to assume your opponent is stupid and a puppet.

Now as far as the parallels, such ideas exist in their
own right and many are legitimate and valid in my
opinion, WITHOUT calling them a parallel to
American Republicans or to Bush.

Sometimes what you call regressive is an opportunity
for you to re-examine the core presumptions of your
beliefs.

Something you thought was a decided issue
may need the healthiness of reaffirmation or re-examination.

And I say all of this to you having seen you win me over on the Liberal Party taking a traditionally conservative position on income tax cuts while Harper takes a traditionally liberal stance on sales tax cuts --- your GST (goods and service tax) cuts.

 

[Freethinker]

Re: RE: Anyone dislike Bush, but voting for Harper?

Now as far as the parallels, such ideas exist in their
own right and many are legitimate and valid in my
opinion, WITHOUT calling them a parallel to
American Republicans or to Bush.

If someone shares a set of ideas it is also likely that they share a similar idealogy. That is a reasonable assumption. It is an idealogy that I find counter. My question were aimed at finding out if it is the idealogy that people object to in Bush, or if it is just Bush himself. For me it is the idealogy, for others it may be the man.