Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks English.

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
But it's nice to see that in responce to the lip service France's minorities have received, they are fighting back for their languages. The conclusion sums up the hypocritical nature of France's attitude quite nicely, actually:

"This policy of cultural homogeneity has been challenged from both the right wing and the left wing. In the 1970s, nationalist or regionalist movements emerged in regions such as Brittany and Occitania claiming that the people should do what the French State refuses to do. The main result was the creation of associative schools in the minority languages. That new web of schools is called Diwan in Brittany, Ikastola in the Basque country, Calandreta in Occitania, Bressola in Northern Catalonia.

Since then, the popular pressure has legitimised the teaching of minority languages, obliging the French State to open its own bilingual schools in the 1980s. But even today, only one quarter of the young Bretons have access to a course of Breton language during their time in school. The Constitutional Council also blocked the assimilation of the Diwan schools into the public education system.

A long campaign of defacing road-signs led to the first bilingual road-signs in the 1980s. These are now increasingly common in Brittany. As far as the media are concerned, there is still hardly any Breton on the waves. But since 1982, a few Breton speaking radio stations have been created on an associative basis. The launching of the Breton TV Breizh was a commercial failure.

There is some opposition to Loi Toubon mandating the use of French (or at least a translation into French) in commercial advertising and packaging, as well as in some other contexts."
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

Machjo said:
Nice to see France's minority languages to be alive and well, too:

"The non-French Oïl languages and Franco-Provençal are highly endangered. The other languages are still spoken but are all considered endangered.

In the 1950s, more than one million people spoke Breton as their main language. The countryside in western Brittany was still overwhelmingly Breton-speaking. Today, about 250,000 people are able to speak Breton (1 out of 6 people in the Breton-speaking area ); but most of them are old people, over 60 years old. The other languages have followed the same trend, even though Alsatian and Corsican have resisted better, and Occitan as followed still a worse trend."


K enough, we can see you hate french peoples.

if you are a real chinese, you are not well place to play morals on the french, quite far from it.
 

cortez

Council Member
Feb 22, 2006
1,260
0
36
i agree
at international meetings
use your own tongue
with translators
wow--- what a great idea
all this talk of french arrogance
its the english that is ..english speaking people who appear arrogant to me about this issue
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

aeon said:
keep talking guys, that will just convince me that i should be a separatist.

Hey, I'm a native french speaker myself. And while the global hegemony of English is indeed a threat to minority languages, replacing English-language hegemony with French-language hegemony is NOT the answer!
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
5,468
109
63
Florida, Hurricane Central
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

aeon said:
Strangely i feel the same as chirac,there is tons of translator who are paid incredible amount of money to translate what you say in your native language in those kind of international conference, speaking french is an honor, and since most of the west speak mostly english, it is very important for french people to speak our native language as possible as we can.dont like it?? just use translator headphone, dont like to use those translator headphone??, then learn french simple as that.

You can speak French as much as you want. And you can feel any way you want. You can feel honoured by your language.

But for the President of a country to storm out because he didn't like the language being spoken makes France look small not big.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

iamcanadian said:
Who the *censored* do these French Racists think they are?

It is a culture of biggoted, arogant, whinning people that think they are better than everyone else because of a STUPID COMPLICATED EGOCENTRIC language.

French is the language of the STUCK-UP people with pickels in the arse.

It's about time that the non-french people of the world put them in their place as just another one or the many dying or dead languages and stop pandering to their GIRLYMAN Culture that cares so much about a silly language.


Incredible, you pretend to be a canadian and you talk like that, the last time people had that feeling towards french were during ww2, in fact they were nazi, they had the same hatred towards them. Pathetic.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

Machjo said:
aeon said:
keep talking guys, that will just convince me that i should be a separatist.

Hey, I'm a native french speaker myself. And while the global hegemony of English is indeed a threat to minority languages, replacing English-language hegemony with French-language hegemony is NOT the answer!

French language hegomony will never happen, what the hell are you talking about?? how will it happen??
 

cortez

Council Member
Feb 22, 2006
1,260
0
36
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

aeon said:
iamcanadian said:
Who the *censored* do these French Racists think they are?

It is a culture of biggoted, arogant, whinning people that think they are better than everyone else because of a STUPID COMPLICATED EGOCENTRIC language.

French is the language of the STUCK-UP people with pickels in the arse.

It's about time that the non-french people of the world put them in their place as just another one or the many dying or dead languages and stop pandering to their GIRLYMAN Culture that cares so much about a silly language.


Incredible, you pretend to be a canadian and you talk like that, the last time people had that feeling towards french were during ww2, in fact they were nazi, they had the same hatred towards them. Pathetic.

i agree totally pathetic
i-am-canadian
more like i-am-english-canadian

this anti french stuff is pure BS

i know a bit of french-- and wish i had the time to learn a bit more
its a wonderfull language
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

Toro said:
aeon said:
Strangely i feel the same as chirac,there is tons of translator who are paid incredible amount of money to translate what you say in your native language in those kind of international conference, speaking french is an honor, and since most of the west speak mostly english, it is very important for french people to speak our native language as possible as we can.dont like it?? just use translator headphone, dont like to use those translator headphone??, then learn french simple as that.

You can speak French as much as you want. And you can feel any way you want. You can feel honoured by your language.

But for the President of a country to storm out because he didn't like the language being spoken makes France look small not big.


Chirac never said he didnt like the language that was spoken, he was offended because one of his minister who is french spoke english, i am also by the way offended by this behavior..
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

"Strangely i feel the same as chirac"

And so do I, to a certain extent; I'd hate to English-language hegemony continue to threaten otehr world languages.

"there is tons of translator who are paid incredible amount of money to translate what you say in your native language in those kind of international conference"

No I think this is where you and I might part ways. If I'm not mystaken, you don't really care about language justice as much as just trying to replace English-langauge hegemony with French language hegemony. If you sincerely believe in language justice, there are only two ways of achieving that:

1. Adopting a Universal Auxiliary Language which is the native language of none, easy to learn, and only used for inter-ethnic communication. Or

2. Recognising every single ethnic language in the world as official, all with equal rights. Now for the sake of argument, since I suspect the first option isn't so popular among many French speakers (I being an exception), let's focus on the second. Would you be prepared to promote Breton, Occitan, Basque, Alsatian, Frankish, West Flemish, Catalan, Corsican, Fraco-Provencal, Auvergnat, Gascon, Ariegeois, Bearnais, Landais, Languedocien, Limousin, Nissart, Provencal, Bourgignon-Morvandiau, Champenois, Gallo, Lorrain, Norman, Picard, Poitevin-Saintongeais and Wallon as official languges with tranlators to and from each and every one of them? That would bust France's budget within a month, but it would technically be fair (just not efficient).

So in the end, if you sincerely believe in language justice and are not just some hypocrite, you'll eitehr be prepared to promote a universal auxiliary language or official and equal recognition for ALL languages.

, speaking french is an honor,

And so is speaking Breton, Occitan, Basque, Alsatian, Frankish, West Flemish, Catalan, Corsican, Fraco-Provencal, Auvergnat, Gascon, Ariegeois, Bearnais, Landais, Languedocien, Limousin, Nissart, Provencal, Bourgignon-Morvandiau, Champenois, Gallo, Lorrain, Norman, Picard, Poitevin-Saintongeais and Wallon, no?

"and since most of the west speak mostly english, it is very important for french people to speak our native language as possible as we can."

I assume by that that you meant "for French people to speak our native languages"?


dont like it?? just use translator headphone,

But there are no tranlators for Breton, Occitan, Basque, Alsatian, Frankish, West Flemish, Catalan, Corsican, Fraco-Provencal, Auvergnat, Gascon, Ariegeois, Bearnais, Landais, Languedocien, Limousin, Nissart, Provencal, Bourgignon-Morvandiau, Champenois, Gallo, Lorrain, Norman, Picard, Poitevin-Saintongeais and Wallon, are there?

dont like to use those translator headphone??, then learn french simple as that.

Well, if we should all learn French, then should the French not all learn Breton, Occitan, Basque, Alsatian, Frankish, West Flemish, Catalan, Corsican, Fraco-Provencal, Auvergnat, Gascon, Ariegeois, Bearnais, Landais, Languedocien, Limousin, Nissart, Provencal, Bourgignon-Morvandiau, Champenois, Gallo, Lorrain, Norman, Picard, Poitevin-Saintongeais and Wallon? Sorry, but that would be just too much in my opinion.

So that's why I'd prefer a UAL.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

Who the *censored* do these French Racists think they are?

from what you typed in this post, isn't it the pot calling the kettle black?

It is a culture of biggoted, arogant, whinning people that think they are better than everyone else because of a STUPID COMPLICATED EGOCENTRIC language.

So are you a pot or a kettle?

French is the language of the STUCK-UP people with pickels in the arse.

Pot?

It's about time that the non-french people of the world put them in their place as just another one or the many dying or dead languages and stop pandering to their GIRLYMAN Culture that cares so much about a silly language.

Kettle?

You'd be surprised at how many Chinese are likewise becomming concerned about English-language hegemony in China too. It's not necessarily the fault of the English, but your ignorance of cultural sensitivities shows where you stand on your knowledge of this issue, I'm afraid.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

K enough, we can see you hate french peoples.

I'm a French Canadian, went to primary school in French, speak to my entire family on my mother's side in French, communicated with my ex primarily in French, and you say I hate French peoples? My point is not with the defence of French; it's with teh defence of French at the expence of otehr languges. While I'm opposed to English-language hegemony, why must I prove my "loyalty" to French by necessarily supporting French-language hegemony. I love French; but I don't need to promote the death of other languages to save my native one; it's just a quetcion of justice. Once it reaches the stage at which the French don't just want to defend their language, but actaully replace English as the international hegemon, that's not just love of the language anymore, but outright linguistic fanaticism.

if you are a real chinese, you are not well place to play morals on the french, quite far from it.[/quote]
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

if you are a real chinese, you are not well place to play morals on the french, quite far from it.

1. I never said I was Chinese: I merely live in China. And
2. Even if I were Chinese, you'd have no right to blame me for what my government does now, do you.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

Machjo said:
if you are a real chinese, you are not well place to play morals on the french, quite far from it.

1. I never said I was Chinese: I merely live in China. And
2. Even if I were Chinese, you'd have no right to blame me for what my government does now, would you.
 

cortez

Council Member
Feb 22, 2006
1,260
0
36
its the english speaking people of the world that arrogantly want to establish english language hegemony on the planet-- everyone else including the french are trying to defend themselves against this
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

cortez said:
i agree
at international meetings
use your own tongue
with translators

So should I be allowed to use Breton, Occitan, Basque, Alsatian, Frankish, West Flemish, Catalan, Corsican, Fraco-Provencal, Auvergnat, Gascon, Ariegeois, Bearnais, Landais, Languedocien, Limousin, Nissart, Provencal, Bourgignon-Morvandiau, Champenois, Gallo, Lorrain, Norman, Picard, Poitevin-Saintongeais or Wallon too?

Who will pay for all of this?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

i know a bit of french-- and wish i had the time to learn a bit more
its a wonderfull language


Yes, it is.
 

cortez

Council Member
Feb 22, 2006
1,260
0
36
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

Machjo said:
cortez said:
i agree
at international meetings
use your own tongue
with translators

So should I be allowed to use Breton, Occitan, Basque, Alsatian, Frankish, West Flemish, Catalan, Corsican, Fraco-Provencal, Auvergnat, Gascon, Ariegeois, Bearnais, Landais, Languedocien, Limousin, Nissart, Provencal, Bourgignon-Morvandiau, Champenois, Gallo, Lorrain, Norman, Picard, Poitevin-Saintongeais or Wallon too?

Who will pay for all of this?

the english speaking peoples-- to make up for their arrogance
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

aeon said:
Toro said:
aeon said:
Strangely i feel the same as chirac,there is tons of translator who are paid incredible amount of money to translate what you say in your native language in those kind of international conference, speaking french is an honor, and since most of the west speak mostly english, it is very important for french people to speak our native language as possible as we can.dont like it?? just use translator headphone, dont like to use those translator headphone??, then learn french simple as that.

You can speak French as much as you want. And you can feel any way you want. You can feel honoured by your language.

But for the President of a country to storm out because he didn't like the language being spoken makes France look small not big.


Chirac never said he didnt like the language that was spoken, he was offended because one of his minister who is french spoke english, i am also by the way offended by this behavior..

I believe at an international conference, one ought to be free to speak in any of the official languges of the conference. And I'll reiterate, I believe thare are only two ways of making this just:

1. UAL or

2. All language official (expensive)

But either way, no one has the right to prohibit a person from using any language which is recognized as official in the conference.

I was at a meeting in Beijing in the Summer of 2004. Interpretors were available in Chinese and Esperanto. My native languages are French and English. So according to your line of logic, I'd be supposed to have spoken in either English or French and have no interpreter available to interpret? Some line of logic that is. Since my Chinese was limited, I thus chose Esperanto. You've obviously never attended an international conference then, aeon. At a conference, you don't get to choose what language you speak. One or more languages is/are selected as the working language(s_ and you get to choose from the languages chosen, or speak in the single language chosen. nd if you don't understand any of the chosen languages, then tough. That's just how conferences work (obviously they can't haveinterpreters to and from 800 odd languages at the same time!).
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Re: RE: Angry Chirac leaves summit as Frenchman speaks Engli

aeon said:
Machjo said:
aeon said:
keep talking guys, that will just convince me that i should be a separatist.

Hey, I'm a native french speaker myself. And while the global hegemony of English is indeed a threat to minority languages, replacing English-language hegemony with French-language hegemony is NOT the answer!

French language hegomony will never happen, what the hell are you talking about?? how will it happen??

We already have it in Quebec (how's montagnais right now?) and France (Breton ain't too healthy either right now, threatenned by teh dominance of which language?).