America's Innocence Ravaged On 9/11

Said1

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Apr 18, 2005
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BitWhys said:
Said1 said:
If you're putting Canada's bilateral trade in the same league with the McNamara assembly line and concommitant marginal cost driven American foreign policy I'd say you are sorely overstating your case.

If you're just saying no one is innocent, I'd agree. But no one in this thread has said that. about Canada, anyways.

Actually, no I"m not overstating myself, it was meant in general - Canada's contribution to the arms trade is very high. It's funny you brought that up though, all the while downplaying the situation. Very funny indeed. You're funny in general. Like funny ha-ha. :)
 

sanch

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Apr 8, 2005
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Re: RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE R

darkbeaver said:
Said1 is the manufacturing of arms and munitions for Uncle Sam really Canadian or is it corporate, the two are not the same thing the corporate world has no alligance to any nation the corporatists only repect money and that trumps any nationalistic connections.
But it is criminal that we permit the manufacture of arms for the machine.

The linkages between the state and corproations in Canada are rather opaque and there have been no recent empirical studies to map out exactly what the relationship is as far as I know. If one looks at Mexico and the US though where there is a better understanding of how corporations use the political apparatus to further their aims then we have to assume that the relationship between the corporate and government in Canada is very symbiotic as well.


Take Lockheed Martin which is a private corporation but does most of its business with governments, almost 80% of it with the Department of Defense and Homeland Security in the US. This must be a very cozy relationship.

Here is its description of services in Canada. It sounds very cozy as well.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fnec&ti=100

Canada:
Lockheed Martin business interests are primarily served through Lockheed Martin Canada. Lockheed Martin Canada is a highly diversified company engaged in the design, development, production, integration and life cycle support of advanced technology products and systems. LM Canada is a systems integrator in the naval, airborne, land and civil operations markets in Canada and around the world.

•Employing about 500 people across the country, Lockheed Martin Canada is headquartered in Kanata, Ontario, and has supporting operations in Montreal, Halifax, Dartmouth, and Victoria.

•A recognized Canadian industrial leader in management and integration of complex, large scale military systems including ship-borne command and control systems, airborne sensor and data management systems, land forces electronic warfare and command and analysis systems.

• A provider of high quality, highly effective and affordable computer based, synthetic maintenance training and simulation systems for defense and commercial applications as well as a provider of full-scale tactical trainer systems, weapon effects training systems and live fire-training systems.

• LM Canada's major lines of business and areas of focus are:
o Airborne systems integration, especially involving
maritime patrol;
o Naval programs; and
o National security programs in support of urgent
national priorities.
 

Said1

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Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE R

BitWhys said:
Said1 said:
...all the while downplaying the situation...

substantiate please.

I'm not sure how I can re-phrase you're post in order for you to understand what you ment, better. I could re-quote it for you if you want. I don't know, maybe read it again? Try starting with how you went from 9/11 to McNamara filling the "missle gap" from me saying "Canada contributes to the manufacturing of arms, that eventually kill people" (Including McNamara's missle gap rampage, which you down played). :shrug:

For anyone who is interested, here is an interesting (albeit old -2002) article about "arms sales".


From a bit farther down in the article
The use of military spending to prop-up corporations and high tech industries such as aerospace is rarely discussed by governments because of potential political fall-out. But the Canadian government made a rare admission that military spending is being used as an industrial subsidy. A recent report on the arms trade said, "Despite General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) rules that eliminated tariff barriers between signatories on civil aircraft products and the restricted the use of government procurement, many countries use national security exceptions to provide direct financial assistance to their domestic industry."
Globalization and Canada’s Arms Industry
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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Re: RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE R

Said1 said:
... to McNamara filling the "missle gap"...

I said no such thing and would appreciate it if you stopped trying to put words in my mouth.
 

Said1

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Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE R

BitWhys said:
Said1 said:
... to McNamara filling the "missle gap"...

I said no such thing and would appreciate it if you stopped trying to put words in my mouth.

Ok, Mr.-jump-to-really-far-out-there-conclusions-yourself. :D

I think you get my point now, though. Right?


also
stopped trying to put words in my mouth

Substantiate, pls.

No don't, that was a joke. See, I can be funny too.
 

BitWhys

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Apr 5, 2006
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Re: RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE R

BitWhys said:
If you're putting Canada's bilateral trade in the same league with the McNamara assembly line and concommitant marginal cost driven American foreign policy I'd say you are sorely overstating your case.

If you're just saying no one is innocent, I'd agree. But no one in this thread has said that. about Canada, anyways.

During the sixties is was McNamara's restructuring of the DoD that gave the green light and aggressively pursued the policy of financing and selling conventional weapons abroad to reduce the cost of domestic supplies. I assumed, said1, as such a well-researched critic of JRS you would have been aware of it since he comments in its impact to considerable degree.
 

Said1

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Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE R

BitWhys said:
BitWhys said:
If you're putting Canada's bilateral trade in the same league with the McNamara assembly line and concommitant marginal cost driven American foreign policy I'd say you are sorely overstating your case.

If you're just saying no one is innocent, I'd agree. But no one in this thread has said that. about Canada, anyways.

During the sixties is was McNamara's restructuring of the DoD that gave the green light and aggressively pursued the policy of financing and selling conventional weapons abroad to reduce the cost of domestic supplies. I assumed, said1, as such a well-researched critic of JRS you would have been aware of it since he comments in its impact to considerable degree.

Again, my initial comment had nothing to do with that. And I'll presume the rest is sarcasm, non?
 

BitWhys

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Apr 5, 2006
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RE: America's Innocence R

you asked me to substantiate my remark you were putting words in my mouth. my reference to McNamara had NOTHING to do with missiles.

you weren't funny so I figured the first part of your remark was crap as well.
 

Said1

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Re: RE: America's Innocence R

BitWhys said:
you asked me to substantiate my remark you were putting words in my mouth. my reference to McNamara had NOTHING to do with missiles.

you weren't funny so I figured the first part of your remark was crap as well.

I did no such thing on either account.

Get over it.
 

Said1

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Re: RE: America's Innocence Ravaged On 9/11

cortezzz said:
said1 you seem to know a lot about economics-- did you major in it...

No. I totally such at econometricssiss, even at the econ 100 level.
:oops:

I love theory though and it's involved in a large part of what I do study - human geography.
 

cortezzz

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2006
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no--- you know yer stuff
i was going to ask what you thought the best -- basic book on the subject was

human geography---
interesting
do you subscribe to the one world theory
or will there
always be 4 or 5 worlds

ever try that test kit from the human genographic society-- where you send them a sample of yer dna-- and they give you a map of your genetic migratory background--

someone gave me a kit as a present--- but i havent completed it yet
 

Said1

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Re: RE: America's Innocence Ravaged On 9/11

cortezzz said:
no--- you know yer stuff
i was going to ask what you thought the best -- basic book on the subject was

human geography---
interesting
do you subscribe to the one world theory
or will there
always be 4 or 5 worlds

ever try that test kit from the human genographic society-- where you send them a sample of yer dna-- and they give you a map of your genetic migratory background--

someone gave me a kit as a present--- but i havent completed it yet

I think there will always be competing powers, that will change over time, with some at different stages of development and decline.

I had a professor who was really into Wolfgang Sachs, who isn't one of my favorites, but he did write one essay I liked entitled "Development: the rise and decline of an ideal", that might interest you. At least is seems to say a lot of things that conincide with a lot of stuff you've posted. There are also some reference points worth researching. It's long, but worth skimming, it can be found here Essay.

As for books on economics, I can't really help, although Ian Wallace's "A Geography of the Canadian Economy" was quite good. Other than that, I only have text books. I have a feeling Toro could help though. :)

And no on the DNA kit.