Americans travelling as Canadians

[Pat Bateman]

Last year I received some american buddies, they were carrying Canadian badges on their backpack, with Canadian caps on their heads and were saying "I come from Alberta" all the time they could, even if no one asked...
Because, as they said to me, they were "scare the european people would lynch them as soon as they knew they came from USA".
But I guess, with all the crappy stuff happening in America, they weren't just proud to be american.

So you see, this T-shirt stuff (true or not) really don't bring anything new, don't be affraid, you won't see more fake Canadian in Europe!

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Last summer an American woman whom I, and some other friends, met in Rome visited the Netherlands in her tour around Europe, and yes, she complained about the anti-Americanism in Europe. "I didn't vote Bush, for crying out loud" she said. She was tired of Europeans starting to complain to her about Bush everytime she spoke English and people noticed she was from America.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Americans travelling

She should have just complained along with them, that way they'd understand that not all Americans are Bush supporters.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

But why should she? She was travelling through Europe to enjoy, to experience Europe. She had no need of thinking about politics. And she just felt a bit threatened. When we visited Amsterdam, she complained about the people smoking pot on the streets - not to us directly, like "you are Dutch, and it are YOUR people who are smoking pot on the streets", no she just said that she didn't like to smell of pot, and she had heard that it is not allowed to smoke pot on the streets in the Netherlands (which is true), that's why the complaint. When she was talking about that with us, a guy who had been listening and had already participated a bit in our conversation (nice guy) suddenly said "well, why don't you go back to the US then?" - in an "ugly" voice you know. Can you imagine that she complained about anti-Americanism? Would she had had the same reaction when she had been Canadian, or German?

PS: she DID like Europe you know, a lot! Just to make that sure.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Americans travelling

There is bound to be a lot of hostility towards the US though. Their policies are pretty much universally abhorred outside of their own borders. Obviously that's going to have some repercussions for Americans travelling abroad. Americans need to understand that.

As for complaining about the smell of pot...hasn't she ever been to a rock concert? It isn't legal to smoke pot there either, but that smell hangs in the air pretty thick. Same if you to somebody's house...it isn't legal, but does she complain to people about them smoking dope in their own house?

 

[Ten Packs]

http://www.t-shirtking.com/gocanadian.html/920fd0c22cc90c4ac30ec847d6c07fda

Too funny! And made in New Mexico, to boot!


But of course, if you ask a guy named Wingnut, he'll tell you that it's all a bunch of crap - Americans never pose as Canadians.

Sure.......

 

[sj007]

i think i give it to my sovrenist friends

 

[Papapwe]

Why should we travel with flags anyway?

 

[Reverend Blair]

But of course, if you ask a guy named Wingnut, he'll tell you that it's all a bunch of crap - Americans never pose as Canadians.

That's why I never ask him anything, Tenpacks. :lol:

Why should we travel with flags anyway?

A very good question. I don't have an answer, but it is a good question.

 

[sj007]

cux were pound its the same reson i have a canadian flag on my school backpack ok maybe not but its cuz were proud

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

There is bound to be a lot of hostility towards the US though. Their policies are pretty much universally abhorred outside of their own borders. Obviously that's going to have some repercussions for Americans travelling abroad. Americans need to understand that.

What?? "Americans need to understand that". That's the world upside down. In the example I gave to you, how in the world should she be understandable about the fact some people are extremely hostile to her. It's not her responsibility. She is on a trip. I totally disagree with you. What if there was to be a Canadian prime minister who would do the same as Bush? Would you be understandable to Europeans if they said to you "go back to Canada" when you're just trying to have a good time in Europe?

As for complaining about the smell of pot...hasn't she ever been to a rock concert? It isn't legal to smoke pot there either, but that smell hangs in the air pretty thick. Same if you to somebody's house...it isn't legal, but does she complain to people about them smoking dope in their own house?

She just said she doesn't like the smell of pot. She didn't say "I do not approve of the use of softdrugs" whatsoever (although she has the right to think that way). And why is it important for you to know what her thoughts are about people smoking pot in their own house?

 

[Reverend Blair]

What if there was to be a Canadian prime minister who would do the same as Bush? Would you be understandable to Europeans if they said to you "go back to Canada" when you're just trying to have a good time in Europe?

Yes. It's pretty funny how we all love to bask in the glow when we hear about instances of Canadians being well-liked abroad, but don't want to be associated with the negative things our countries represent. It works both ways.

She just said she doesn't like the smell of pot. She didn't say "I do not approve of the use of softdrugs" whatsoever (although she has the right to think that way). And why is it important for you to know what her thoughts are about people smoking pot in their own house?

It isn't what her thoughts are, it's whether and how she expresses them. The smell of pot is something most of us have come across before. Some people like it and others don't, but complaining about it when you've voluntarily gone someplace where you are likely to smell it seems like bad form to me.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Yes. It's pretty funny how we all love to bask in the glow when we hear about instances of Canadians being well-liked abroad, but don't want to be associated with the negative things our countries represent. It works both ways.

Oh, she's well aware of how people think about Bush in the rest of the world - she has a lot of European friends. However, she does not identify herself with the Republicans or the politics of Bush. Therefore, it was painful for her to see that some Europeans just saw her as "another American" (read: "another Republican"), and she was criticized for that. In her eyes, this was more than criticising Bush and his politics; an entire nationality (the American one) had become similar to a war she didn't agree with, a man she didn't like and conservatives which she had no affiliation to. She can blame Bush for that; she does; but she also found it very shortsighted of some Europeans. And above all, as I said before, she travelled through Europe to relax and experience other cultures - not to discuss politics and experience hostility, merely based on her nationality.

It isn't what her thoughts are, it's whether and how she expresses them. The smell of pot is something most of us have come across before. Some people like it and others don't, but complaining about it when you've voluntarily gone someplace where you are likely to smell it seems like bad form to me.

She was aware of the fact people use softdrugs. She was also aware of the fact that people are not allowed to smoke it on the streets. Should she have avoided the Netherlands just because there was the possibility she came in touch with the smell of pot?

 

[Reverend Blair]

Therefore, it was painful for her to see that some Europeans just saw her as "another American" (read: "another Republican"), and she was criticized for that.

So it becomes a chance for her to educate people about the fact that some (about half) of all Americans oppose Bush. Travelling anywhere outside your immediate circle of friends needs to be an exchange of ideas.

In the meantime, I wouldn't blame people in Turks and Caicos if they wondered why Canada keeps musing about taking them over. If they expressed a negative view of Canadians because of that, I'd just say, "Well the cold makes us crazy. I think it's a stupid idea too." That opens a chance for discussion of why politicians from every political party in Canada start musing about this every damned January.

Should she have avoided the Netherlands just because there was the possibility she came in touch with the smell of pot?

No, she should have stayed quiet.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

So it becomes a chance for her to educate people about the fact that some (about half) of all Americans oppose Bush. Travelling anywhere outside your immediate circle of friends needs to be an exchange of ideas.

Rev, people like the man in Amsterdam who tell her to go back to her country: is it even useful to start a discussion with him? You see it as an exchange of ideas; I think she will interpret it as apologizing for something she can imagine apologizing before, but for what she does not bare a responsibility. People who identify her with the other half should educate theirselves, not? They should realize not all Americans are the same, and that you can not approach every American with the same story, that "Bush are bad", "Americans are bad" etc. Besides that, she travelled through large parts of Europe - from Greece, to Spain, to Germany. She's a tourist, just like when I made a trip to Italy and Germany last summer.

No, she should have stayed quiet.

She does have the right for an opinion, right? She did like the Amsterdam Zoo; walking through the Red Light District; visiting the Van Gogh museum; visiting the Rijksmuseum; standing in line of the Anne Frankhouse (she eventually decided not to stay in the line, she didn't want to spend her whole afternoon standing in a line). Should she just stay quiet when there are also things she doesn't like? I think it's fantastic she wants to be honest about it. It was not meant as a general disrespect towards the Netherlands, or the Dutch.

 

[Reverend Blair]

People who identify her with the other half should educate theirselves, not?

They should, but they don't. That puts the ball in your friend's court...she can educate them.

She does have the right for an opinion, right?

There is a saying in North America, generally taught to us by our mothers. "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

They should, but they don't. That puts the ball in your friend's court...she can educate them.

But can you understand she didn't WANT to? It's not that she didn't want to talk about it - she did. But her primary reason to visit Europe was not to discuss politics (as I said before). What if an Iranian came to Canada and people started identifying him/her with the religious regime, although he/she does not support them and does NOT want to be identified with them - should (s)he explain that to everybody? Can you understand that (s)he eventually just decides to ignore the people who criticize him/her merely based on the assumption that all Iranians are the same and thus support the ayatollahs?

There is a saying in North America, generally taught to us by our mothers. "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

I never said she said nothing nice about Europe, as you implement. Her view on Europe was very positive, and she even has plans to emigrate to Spain one day (she's also teacher Spanish, which could also be a reason). She said that the Netherlands is awsome, that she liked the people, the history, the open minds. She just didn't like the smell of pot. Why are you making this such a big deal? I used this example in the context of pointing out how a Dutchman reacted to her statement. But that seems to be overlooked.

 

[Reverend Blair]

But can you understand she didn't WANT to?

I can understand. I do things I don't want to every day too...many of them have about as much to do with me as your friend has to do with Bush and his policies. I know that they will come up when I interact with certain people in certain places though. I don't like it, but it's part of life...rightly or wrongly.

I never said she said nothing nice about Europe, as you implement.

I'm not implying that at all. What I'm saying is that publicly criticising others when you are a guest has repercussions. If you don't want to deal with those repercussions, then you shouldn't make the criticism.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

I know that they will come up when I interact with certain people in certain places though.

I think she understood that as well. But she did not expect that people who did not know her attacked her verbally merely because she was American, identifying her with Bush and his policies without even asking whether she is a supporter of him or not. I find it more than logical that she did have the need anymore to explain her personal story to these people, as it seemed these people had already drawn up their own conclusions. Have you ever watched the clip "Beautiful" by Christina Aguilera?

I'm not implying that at all. What I'm saying is that publicly criticising others when you are a guest has repercussions. If you don't want to deal with those repercussions, then you shouldn't make the criticism.

My point is that there you can expect different repercussions. One can join the conversation and make it clear that not all people think that pot smells (to give an example). The first comment my American friend got however was "Then go back to America". I think that people should have the right to say what they think about certain things, as long as they are not extremely insulting, discriminating, in that order. The majority of the people I know don't like the smell of pot either. Standing on the street, complaining about the smell of pot; I can hardly say that she is misbehaving as a guest.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I think she understood that as well. But she did not expect that people who did not know her attacked her verbally merely because she was American, identifying her with Bush and his policies without even asking whether she is a supporter of him or not.

I think she should have expected that. It's not exactly a secret that Americans aren't really popular right now and that human nature leads people to categorise people unthinkingly is pretty much the only thing that everyone has in common.

My point is that there you can expect different repercussions. One can join the conversation and make it clear that not all people think that pot smells (to give an example). The first comment my American friend got however was "Then go back to America".

Mix her comment with point one and the reaction isn't unexpected.