Alternative to Bill 101?

[Machjo]

I'd like to know your thoughts on the following:

Wht if the Ministry of Education allowed at least, let's say, four language choices in its elementary and secondary schools, while limiting the restrictions of Bill 101 to "any language taught to 50% or more of those receiving compulsory education in the province"?

This way, students who would like to be able to actually use what they learn outside of school without needing to worry about the hassles of bill 101 could simply choose one of the less taught languages.

What gave me this idea is the fact that it is rediculous to force studetns to learn something which they will then be restricted from using. It's even an insult to the time they dedicated to learning it. So if they are going to be restricted from learning it, then it would only seem to be the decent thing to do to allow them to choose to learn something they won't be restricted from using afterwards.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[dekhqonbacha]

English.

Now some french people are going aginst bill 101 to supreme court. I don't know if they won the case. If they do, then their kids will be learning English at primary school as well.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: Alternative to Bill 101?

English.

Now some french people are going aginst bill 101 to supreme court. I don't know if they won the case. If they do, then their kids will be learning English at primary school as well.

I don't think you understood the point of my post. I was neither necessarily defending nor opposing Bill 101. What I was saying was that to have such a Bill undermined by an educaiton policy which then forces everyone to learn English is pointless

That's comparable to taking medicine to deal with the symptoms of a cold while nbever dealing with the cold itself. Bill 101 is merely a patch trying to fix a gaping wound caused by the Ministry of Education.

So it would seem to me to be more logical to make a choice. If the goal is to protect the French language, then certainly the Ministry of Education MUST allow for more language options in Quebec's schools, since that is the source of the problem in the first place.

If, on the other hand, it intends to continue with the current policy of compulsory English, then it might as well give up, scrap Bill 101, and let French die as soon as possible, rather than a slow prolonged death.

My personal choice would be to keep Bill 101 and give more foreign languages in schools. All I'm sayng is that if the Ministry of Educaiton won't allow that, then let's stop wasting our time, give up with Bill 101 and let Quebec's culture die right now.

 

[dekhqonbacha]

Would you give a choice to teach Chinese or Russian?

English is foreign language, isn't it? Well, for French.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: Alternative to Bill 101?

Would you give a choice to teach Chinese or Russian?

English is foreign language, isn't it? Well, for French.

I never mentionned what language in this thread. It was more a general question of whether or not there ought to be any alternative foreign language besides English.

As for which languages to add to the list of alternatives, that would be a matter for another thread, which I'll start now.

 

[Said1]

I say scrap the entire bill. If people are so serious about their culture, they shouldn't need the government to 'preseve' it for them with the measures outlined in bill 101 and enforced with da language poooleece.

 

[#juan]

Well said Said1

I think that Quebec politicians think they can get votes by bleating that they are preserving the French language. Guess what. They can.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: Alternative to Bill 101?

I say scrap the entire bill. If people are so serious about their culture, they shouldn't need the government to 'preseve' it for them with the measures outlined in bill 101 and enforced with da language poooleece.

Is that politically realistic, though?

I was thinking of another strategy that English speakers could pull off that would separate the hipocrites from the real sovereignists. Let's say that Quebec's native English speakers turned around and started to pressure the Ministry of Education to adopt tough measures to dicourage students in the French schools from learning English, intended to replace Bill 101.

The argument could go like this:

French Quebecois fear for their language, Englsih Quebecois want language freedom. Well, if French Quebecois are banned from learning the language they so fear, then they will no longer need to fear its threat, thus allowing English speakers to use their language freely. After all, why should French Quebecois be forced by a sovereignist governemtn to learn English, thus causing a threat in the first place, and then having the English Quebecois having to take the brunt of the consequences of thei policy by having to suffer through Bill 101. So instead, let the French Canadians not learn English, and leave the Englsih Canadians in peace.

this would ahve a few effects:

1. It would take the sovereignists completely by surprise.

2. It would split teh sovereignist movement between the honest and the hipocrites. Those who are honest would acknowledge that the Englsih language belongs to the Englsih speakers of the province and so, out of respect for their culture, if they don't want French Canadians to learn their language, then that with ought to be respected. And in return, leave them alone with their English.

The hipocrites, on the otehr hand, would suddenly find themselves in teh unenviable position of promoting sovereignty and fighting for compulsory English instruction in French schools, while defending the restrictions of bill 101 on the English populaiton, all at the same time. The hipocricy would shine bright as day, thus plucking the hipocrites out of the sovereignty movement. Once that's done, it honest federalists and honest sovereignists might then be able to have a more constructive dialogue once the hipocrites should have been plucked from the sovereignist movement.

Such a policy shift on the part of Quebec's Anglophones would be like dropping a bomb at the epicentre of the sovereignist movement.

Add to that, that if French Canadians don't learn English anymore, Quebec would in fact need the new generation of bilinbual Englsih Quebecois for North American trade.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Alternative to Bill 101?

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Is that politically realistic, though?

Is bill 101 realistic, politically or otherwise? Cultraul things are not necessarily limited to seperatists. We've all heard many from accross the political spectrum in Quebec justify bill 101 or at least some part of it. Check this out, an 'Anglais' took their case right to the good old UN. http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/0/769b71f1f9d92c7c802567270059aff1?Opendocument

I was thinking of another strategy that English speakers could pull off that would separate the hipocrites from the real sovereignists. Let's say that Quebec's native English speakers turned around and started to pressure the Ministry of Education to adopt tough measures to dicourage students in the French schools from learning English, intended to replace Bill 101.

The argument could go like this:

French Quebecois fear for their language, Englsih Quebecois want language freedom. Well, if French Quebecois are banned from learning the language they so fear, then they will no longer need to fear its threat, thus allowing English speakers to use their language freely. After all, why should French Quebecois be forced by a sovereignist governemtn to learn English, thus causing a threat in the first place, and then having the English Quebecois having to take the brunt of the consequences of thei policy by having to suffer through Bill 101. So instead, let the French Canadians not learn English, and leave the Englsih Canadians in peace.

You can go to english school in Quebec if your parents went and I doubt this argument hasn't been tried already, with little result. The english population, or those who want their children educated in english seem to be in a positon where they basically have to accept the way things are, or move. I honestly don't think the Quebec government cares one way or another or else this would not be happening in Canada. At least that's how I see it from here.

 

[Said1]

Well said Said1

I think that Quebec politicians think they can get votes by bleating that they are preserving the French language. Guess what. They can.

That's just it. I don't think anyone disagrees that Quebec is 'diffrent' nor should they change. However, their fear of the english language is bit rediculous. I guess the minority is always afraid of being anihilated by the majority, as they should....KIDDING. :twisted: :lol:

 

[Said1]

Canada high court eases French language legislation
Amit at 2:52 PM ET


[JURIST] The Supreme Court of Canada [official website] Thursday unanimously upheld Quebec language legislation known as Bill 101 [text], which makes French-speaking parents send their children to francophone schools. Under the bill, parents must have received the majority of their own schooling in English to be able to have their children educated in that language. Eight families had sought to prove that Bill 101 was discriminatory in precluding their children from receiving an education in English. The court found that members of the linguistic majority have no constitutional right to an education in English, the minority language in Quebec. Lawyers for the parents say they will take their fight to the United Nations. Read the Canadian Supreme Court opinion. In a separate ruling, the court did however ease restrictions on immigrants and native-born Canadians who move to Quebec from other provinces to receive an English education. The court ruled Quebec's government must make Bill 101 comply with Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms [official website] Section 23, which states children who started school in English or French anywhere in Canada, or whose parents were educated in those languages, can be educated in that language. Bill 101 had precluded English-speakers from other provinces from continuing an English education in Quebec. Read the opinion. CTV has local coverage.

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005_03_31_indexarch.php#111229910764912550


Hooray!