Age vote to 16

[cub1c]

If the bill is passed.

I don't think the bill as any chance of passing in the near-future.

One of the biggest reason is that it could be a threat to national unity. In Québec, we all know that 16-17 will vote Yes in majority in a referendum (so they'll vote BQ, PQ).

Other federalists party aren't saying it's bad to let them vote, they are just trying to push this issue aside in an attempt to gain some precious time.

 

[Reverend Blair]

All of the parties are sponsoring the bill, cub1c...it is not a Bloc initiative. Conservative support has dipped somewhat since they decided not to have a youth wing at their convention, but they still have at least some support for the bill because they do have a system that encourages young people to join their party.

The bill will likely die this time around because the government will fall before it gets voted on, but I think it will come back under the next government. The ball is rolling on it and all four of the parties still think they will benefit.

There are a few things about the NDP in Ontario that nobody likes to discuss, Chake.

First of all, Bob Rae used to be a Liberal, so his policies were not solid NDP policies...they were actually actually closer to the "third way" policies of Tony Blair in Britain.

Second of all, he was only in power for one term. Governments commonly spend at least half of their first term dealing with what was left them by the previous government.

Third of all, it was arguably his spending that got the Ontario economy moving again.

Fourth of all, he was in power during a really ugly recession and inherited many problems from previous governments....Conservative governments in other parts of the country did not fair any better than he did.

Fifth of all, the Rae government is not the only NDP government to have held power in Canada. Generally speaking, NDP governments are at least as fiscally responsible as their conservative counterparts. In the cases of Manitoba and Saskatchewan, the NDP governments that are in place right now, they have outperformed their conservative predecessors.

 

[cub1c]

All of the parties are sponsoring the bill, cub1c...

Yeah, and it's probably the reason why it hasn't already passed?

What's the point of debating and waiting and studying the whole issue if everybody agree. Man, if they can't even take a decision when everybody agrees, then Canadian politics is a big joke.

You may be right, but I follow politics closely, especially in Québec, and I never saw another political party supporting the issue, and pushing for it, other than the BQ and PQ.

 

[SirKevin]

The NDP in Ontario were a disaster.

My description is not way off the mark but I admit it is an exaggeration. Note the word carricature in the previous post.

The NDP in Ontario weren't really an NDP government. Rae pissed off even the loyalest NDPers. Interestingly enough I was looking at some books in our school library; one was called "Rae Days" and actually in the synopsis as a more conservative government than anything; but I have an ungodly habit of trying to read too much at once so maybe I'll get that one I finish my current book on the Charter.

But if you want an example of the NDP being fiscally responsible, look no further than Manitoba or Saskatchewan...in both of those places the Conservative vote isn't even on the map.

Also notice how Layton was not willing to do anything that would compromise a balanced budget. He completely dismissed the idea of keeping the tax cuts & adding in additional spending since that would jeopardize balancing the budget. Harper ranted and raved about "reckless spending" but the reality is everyone involved was more than prudent to make sure that this budget didn't go into deficit.

Alternative parties would not really be affected by my vote, and the main one I know, the Green Party, I disagree with.

The Christian Heritage Party have a really pleasant looking platform :lol:

Anyways, as for the topic of this thread...

As a fifteen year old (and Christ, I feel old saying this, but Chake99, you do remind me a lot of me when I was your age :wink I found a lot of the "conformist" stereotypical crap in this thread rather amusing.

I made a post in this thread pages and pages ago about how this would open the door to having meaningful civics/current events classes in schools. It should/could be mandatory for Grade 10 classes & up to take some form of course looking at the current political situation in Canada...where the parties stand on issues, what current issues being debated are, the logistics of having a minority/majority government, the role of the Courts etc...

Obviously then on election day students could vote with their classes (since most/all schools are used to some extent as balloting places)...it would definitely teach people from an early age to vote habitually.

And FWIW I do not at all think the "conformist" label is true. Last June when I was in Grade eight our school did the Student Vote 2004 for Gr. 7 & 8 and the results were like 60 conservative, 50 liberals, 30 NDP and 15 BQ or something proportionate to that. (and I'm still not sure why the hell someone voted for the BQ here in Ontario, then again I'm not sure why the hell anyone votes Conservative either)

 

[Reverend Blair]

I follow politics closely too, and the BQ seemed to be the party least involved in the bill. Think about the way the press tends to handle things. ;-)

Bills, especially small ones, tend to take a long time to work their through the process. Given all that's been going on lately, it's hardly surprising that this one hasn't made it. It is a private member's bill with all-party support. That means there will likely be no whipping of the vote by any party, because there is bound to be dissent in every party too.

 

[SirKevin]

All of the parties are sponsoring the bill, cub1c...

Yeah, and it's probably the reason why it hasn't already passed?

What's the point of debating and waiting and studying the whole issue if everybody agree. Man, if they can't even take a decision when everybody agrees, then Canadian politics is a big joke.

You may be right, but I follow politics closely, especially in Québec, and I never saw another political party supporting the issue, and pushing for it, other than the BQ and PQ.

I remember seeing a bit of the debate on CPAC and a Conservative was debating against it. I actually remember being very amused because he said something along the lines of, "Not one other major country lets sixteen year olds vote -- the US doesn't the UK doesn't..." blatant lie; they vote at 16 in the UK. Then again, they also have a Dubya puppet in power in the UK, so perhaps it isn't such a good idea :lol:

 

[cub1c]

I remember seeing a bit of the debate on CPAC and a Conservative was debating against it.

They don't call themselves Conservatives for nothing!

 

[cub1c]

I follow politics closely too, and the BQ seemed to be the party least involved in the bill. Think about the way the press tends to handle things.

I know, I was just being logic. I know politics isn't something logic.

Let put our youth into today society context.
They are solicited as never seen before by all kind of industrys that want to make money with them. I think everybody can agree on that.

If industrys and capitalism recognized them as BIG consumers, why governments are denying them a voice in politics? They are soliticited all the time by big fat companies that sees them as the most important consumers but when it comes down to society choices, they are left in the dark.

Lot's of people tend to forget that if they have a job and a good economy, it is mostly because of the youth. We have to give credit to those who actually directly contributes to it!

 

[Reverend Blair]

We have to give credit to those who actually directly contributes to it!

Hey, would you like me to arrange for an NDP lawn sign for you? :lol:

 

[Chake99]

If industrys and capitalism recognized them as BIG consumers, why governments are denying them a voice in politics? They are soliticited all the time by big fat companies that sees them as the most important consumers but when it comes down to society choices, they are left in the dark

The reason they are solicited is because they are quite easily taken by something. Younger people are less realistic and more easily capitivated by a visions, regardless of its feasibility, both in the use of votes and in the use of money.

For example most politically active/idealistic young people are anarchists, socialists, communists, seperatists, or fundamentalists. (though Canada does not have a huge share of the fundamentalist section of the pie)