A New Political Compass Question

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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After reading this editorial, what describes you best?

Even if you disagree with the examples used, is the essential premise of "us" or "them" true, and does it describe you?


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'Us' or 'them'
By Thomas Sowell


Published October 28, 2005

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A reader recently sent me an e-mail about a woman he had met and fallen for. Apparently the attraction was mutual -- until one fateful day the subject of the environment came up.

She was absolutely opposed to any drilling for oil in Alaska, on grounds of what harm she said it would do to the environment.

He argued that, since oil drilling was going to occur somewhere in the world anyway, was it not better to drill where there were environmental laws to provide at least some kinds of safeguards, rather than in countries where there were none?

That was the end of a beautiful relationship.

Environmentalist true believers don't think in terms of trade-offs and cost-benefit analysis. There are things that are sacred to them. Trying to get them to compromise on those things would be like trying to convince a Muslim to eat pork, if it was only twice a week.
Compromise and tolerance are not the hallmarks of true believers. What they believe in goes to the heart of what they are. As far as true believers are concerned, you are either one of Us or one of Them.

The man apparently thought that it was just a question of which policy would produce which results. But many issues that look on the surface like they are just about which alternative would best serve the general public are really about being one of Us or one of Them -- and this woman was not about to become one of Them.

Many crusades of the political left have been misunderstood by people who do not understand that these crusades are about establishing the identity and the superiority of the crusaders.

T.S. Eliot understood this more than half a century ago when he wrote: "Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves."

In this case, the man thought he was asking the woman to accept a certain policy as the lesser of two evils, when in fact he was asking her to give up her sense of being one of the morally anointed.

This is not unique to our times or to environmentalists. Back during the 1930s, in the years leading up to World War II, one of the fashionable self-indulgences of the left in Britain was to argue that the British should disarm "as an example to others" in order to serve the interests of peace.

When economist Roy Harrod asked one of his friends whether she thought that disarming Britain would cause Hitler to disarm, her reply was: "Oh, Roy, have you lost all your idealism?"

In other words, it was not really about which policy would produce what results. It was about personal identification with lofty goals and kindred souls.

The ostensible goal of peace was window-dressing. Ultimately it was not a question whether arming or disarming Britain was more likely to deter Hitler. It was a question of which policy would best establish the moral superiority of the anointed and solidify their identification with one another.

"Peace" movements are not judged by the empirical test of how often they actually produce peace or how often their disarmament tempts an aggressor into war. It is not an empirical question. It is an article of faith and a badge of identity.

Yasser Arafat was awarded the Nobel Prize for peace -- not for actually producing peace but for being part of what was called "the peace process," based on fashionable notions that were common bonds among members of what are called "peace movements."

Meanwhile, nobody suggested awarding a Nobel Prize for peace to Ronald Reagan, just because he brought the nuclear dangers of the decades-long Cold War to an end. He did it the opposite way from how members of "peace movements" thought it should be done.

Reagan beefed up the military and entered into an "arms race" that he knew would bankrupt the Soviet Union if they didn't back off, even though arms races are anathema to members of "peace movements." The fact that events proved him right was no excuse as far as members of "peace movements" were concerned. As far as they were concerned, he was not one of Us.

He was one of Them.




Thomas Sowell is a nationally syndicated columnist.
 

Vanni Fucci

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Dec 26, 2004
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Well, considering that this article was written, not to offer any understanding of the differences in ideals between the left and the right, but to denigrate those on the left, I would have to say that you are entirely full of shit...

If you want to be one of them, then be that, but don't go assuming that those that oppose your ideals are wrong, just because you don't understand them...

Educate yourself...that's the key to it all...find whatever information you can and make up your own damn mind...

This 'Us and Them' mentality marginalizes both sides and leaves us with no voice whatsoever...

If you see or hear something that offends your ideals, speak out against it...it doesn't make you one of Us, or one of Them...it just makes you a malcontent...just like everyone else...
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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Well Vanni, you're correct that the commentary is uneven in denigrating the left.

But his commentary should have included examples of TRUE BELIEVERS on both left and right, because his insight about how TRUE BELIEVERS argue is essentially correct :

"true believers don't think in terms of trade-offs and cost-benefit analysis. There are things that are sacred to them. Compromise and tolerance are not the hallmarks of true believers. What they believe in goes to the heart of what they are. As far as true believers are concerned, you are either one of Us or one of Them." ---Thomas Sowell.


His point that TRUE BELIEVERS are not result oriented is interesting:

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"When economist Roy Harrod asked one of his friends whether she thought that disarming Britain would cause Hitler to disarm, her reply was: "Oh, Roy, have you lost all your idealism?"

In other words, it was not really about which policy would produce what results. It was about personal identification with lofty goals and kindred souls.

Ultimately it was not a question whether arming or disarming Britain was more likely to deter Hitler. It was a question of which policy would best establish the moral superiority of the anointed and solidify their identification with one another.
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And the right does notice that the left seems to be just like this on matters of peace:

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"Peace" movements are not judged by the empirical test of how often they actually produce peace or how often their disarmament tempts an aggressor into war. It is not an empirical question. It is an article of faith and a badge of identity.
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And the left does notice that the right really does not consider the harm it does in the arrogance of war.

Sowell's commentary could have had more even-handed examples but I think his description of the TRUE BELIEVER is correct in highlighting the way TRUE BELIEVERS argue in a debate.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
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Yes it is another way of saying these people have principles and stick to them, Hard Luck Henry.

I was more interested, however, in the mechanics of debate between TRUE BELIEVERS, how some times a new observation is missed, and how sometimes a lesser subtle point is steamrolled over, and how related tangents are completely sometimes fatally dismissed and how things like prioritizing or cost tradeoffs or cost/benefit ratio are completely cancelled.
 

GL Schmitt

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Mar 12, 2005
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Thanks for the whiff, Jim.

I haven’t encountered such undiluted horse puckey since last year’s Royal Winter Fair. :?
 

Vanni Fucci

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Re: RE: A New Political Compass Question

jimmoyer said:
I was more interested, however, in the mechanics of debate between TRUE BELIEVERS, how some times a new observation is missed, and how sometimes a lesser subtle point is steamrolled over, and how related tangents are completely sometimes fatally dismissed and how things like prioritizing or cost tradeoffs or cost/benefit ratio are completely cancelled.

I would suggest then Jim, that you too have been a victim of this TRUE BELIEF phenomenon...although in recent weeks I've noticed that you've started to come around a bit...much less of an apologist than you used to be...

Not so much though that you'd dare to admit that the left was right... :p