A new definition of magic?

[Vanni Fucci]

Muhammad was an evil jinn - deal with it.

If you follow him then you follow a jinn.

No such thing as jinn...deal with that instead...

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

Orly? It is you that is the liar!

Qur'an:

Sura 4:88-89 Then what is the matter with you that you are divided into two parties about the hypocrites? Allah has cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they have earned. Do you want to guide him whom Allah has made go astray? And he whom Allah has made to go astray, you will never find for him any way (of guidance) 89 They wish that you reject (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So, take not Auliya (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the way of Allah (to Muhammad). But if they turn back (from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill [q-t-l] them wherever you find them . . . .

Sura 9:73-74 O Prophet, strive [j-h-d] hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be adamant and stern with them . . . they did utter the words of unbelief. Thus, they were guilty of unbelief after they professed Islam . . . If even now they repent of their misbehavior, it will be good for their own selves, but if they do not repent, Allah will chastise them with a painful chastisement in this world and the Hereafter . . . . [whereupon Muhammad went on a killing spree]

Hadith:

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

When Allah's Messenger died and Abu Bakr was elected as a Caliph after him, some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief. 'Umar said to Abu Bakr, "How dare you fight the people while Allah's Messenger said, ‘I have been ordered to fight the people till they say, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah." And whoever says: "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah" saves his wealth and his life from me unless he deserves a legal punishment justly, and his account will be with Allah!"’" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, I will fight him who discriminates between Zakat and Salat (prayers), for Zakat is the compulsory right to be taken from the wealth. By Allah, if they refuse to give me even a tying rope which they use to give to Allah's Messenger, I would fight them for withholding it." 'Umar said, "By Allah, it was nothing, except I saw that Allah had opened the chest of Abu Bakr to the fight, and I came to know for certain that that (i.e. the decision to fight) was the truth."

No doubt I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."

Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "If someone changes his deen - strike his neck!"



The meaning of the statement of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, in our opinion and Allah knows best, is that "if someone changes his deen, strike his neck!" refers to those who leave Islam for other than it - like the heretics and their like, about whom it is known. They are killed without being called to tawba because their tawba is not recognised. They were hiding their kufr and publishing their Islam, so I do not think that one calls such people to tawba, and one does not accept their word. As for the one who goes out of Islam to something else and divulges it, one calls him to tawba. If he does not turn in tawba, he is killed. If there are people in that situation, I think that one should call them to Islam and call them to tawba. If they turn in tawba, that is accepted from them. If they do not turn in tawba, they are killed. That does not refer as we see it, and Allah knows best, to those who come out of Judaism to Christianity or from Christianity to Judaism, nor to someone who changes his deen from the various forms of deen except for Islam. Whoever comes out of Islam to other than it and divulges that, that is the one who is referred to, and Allah knows best!



​

So don't call me a liar ahmadabdalrhman!!! This is the second time I have demonstrated the bloody murderous nature of Muhammad and his gang of cultists so your denials are lies not a mistake.

.

NOTE: Islam always deals with everyone in Justice and Equity. Oppression of any person, regardless of their religious belief is totally forbidded in the Islamic State on all levels.
Islam means "willing submission to the Will of God in peaceful obedience", and as such, cannot be forced upon anyone, nor can anyone be converted to Islam against their will. When the laws of Islam are set in place they exist as a trust to protect God-given rights of everyone, under God's Laws. Islamic State provides advantages and benefits for all who live within its domain, as well as admonision and punishment for those who violate this trust and oppress others. ​

An important point to keep in mind, Islam like Judaism, served as a full and complete government as well as a religious way of life for their followers for many centuries, and there was absolutely no such thing as "secular" or seperation of "Church" and state. (Note: "church" here refers to the clergy's control of civil matters, rather than reference to the place of worship. Thus is would include the temple and the mosque for the sake of conversation)
Leaving Islam on the basis of belief only and without offering any damage or oppression to others or to the Islamic State does not carry corporal or capital punishment, or any other type of punishment that I have found evidence for. In fact, there were cases at the time of the prophet, peace be upon him, where some had entered Islam, left Islam and then came back to Islam. Other cases people left and did not come back and lived on without any persecution or prosecution for that matter, whatsoever.


and The corporal punishment that should be implemented on an apostate is death as the Prophet

said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him However, it is only the Muslim ruler who may inflict this punishment of killing an apostate, and it is not any person who may do this as this will lead to affliction and anarchy. The corporal punishment of a person who apostates, is death because Allaah legislated so, and we cannot object His Decree. Allaah Says (which means): It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allaah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear Quran 33:36]. Moreover, this apostate knew the greatness of Islam and that it is the true religion, but then he rejected it and abandoned it just because of following his desires and following the devil, so he deserves to be killed.



An apostate who should be killed is an adult, sane person who chooses to do so, whether it is a man or a woman; there is a consensus of the scholars

with regard to a male apostate, but in relation to a female apostate, it is the view of the majority or the jurists

.



As regards a young child who apostates, it is not permissible to kill him until he becomes an adult. If he persists on disbelief as an adult, then he should be killed, but if he embraces Islam again, then he should not be killed. For more details
So, such a person who apostates and defects from the community becomes, like a cancerous organ that has to be removed to avoid that the expansion of the disease reaches other organs. But, this mutilation should no take place except if there is no hope of treating it. The apostate is given a last opportunity to repent and return back to Islam before being executed. If he perseveres and refuses to return to what he has committed himself to, i.e. Islam, he is then executed. This is a retributive act and the apostate is then the one who harmed himself by sticking to his apostasy.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

An apostate who should be killed is an adult, sane person who chooses to do so, whether it is a man or a woman; there is a consensus of the scholars

with regard to a male apostate, but in relation to a female apostate, it is the view of the majority or the jurists

. </SPAN>



As regards a young child who apostates, it is not permissible to kill him until he becomes an adult. If he persists on disbelief as an adult, then he should be killed, but if he embraces Islam again, then he should not be killed. For more details
So, such a person who apostates and defects from the community becomes, like a cancerous organ that has to be removed to avoid that the expansion of the disease reaches other organs. But, this mutilation should no take place except if there is no hope of treating it. The apostate is given a last opportunity to repent and return back to Islam before being executed. If he perseveres and refuses to return to what he has committed himself to, i.e. Islam, he is then executed. This is a retributive act and the apostate is then the one who harmed himself by sticking to his apostasy.

Savage...:angryfire:

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

Savage...:angryfire:

Savage what ?:angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

millions killed from muslims and do to leave the their countrys

in every where because them muslims

or 7 or 8 from apostates

wake up !!

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Savage what ?:angryfire: :angryfire: :angryfire:

millions killed from muslims and do to leave the their countrys

in every where because them muslims

or 7 or 8 from apostates

wake up !!

Don't know exactly what you're trying to say here...have you tried Babelfish?

Yahoo! Babel Fish - Text Translation and Web Page Translation

Anyway...killing for any reason other than self-defense or defense of your family is unjust...

Killing someone because they choose not to follow your religion is savage...:angryfire:

 

[Scott Free]

millions killed from muslims and do to leave the their countrys

in every where because them muslims

or 7 or 8 from apostates

wake up !!

You said: Islam is religion of peace - it is not.

You said : Muhammad didn't say to kill - he did.

So you're clearly a liar - a trickster - a follower of a jinn.

All religion is trickery and lies - Islam is no different.

It is not god you follow but Muhammad the jinn, otherwise you would not need to lie.

It is not god you follow but Muhammad the jinn, otherwise he would not say to kill the apostate.

I can see why you would deny this because you do not want to be killed by other jinn followers like yourself.

You do not want to be killed by Islam. So you have to lie.

That is not good; it is evil.

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

You said: Islam is religion of peace - it is not.

You said : Muhammad didn't say to kill - he did.

So you're clearly a liar - a trickster - a follower of a jinn.

All religion is trickery and lies - Islam is no different.

It is not god you follow but Muhammad the jinn, otherwise you would not need to lie.

It is not god you follow but Muhammad the jinn, otherwise he would not say to kill the apostate.

I can see why you would deny this because you do not want to be killed by other jinn followers like yourself.

You do not want to be killed by Islam. So you have to lie.

That is not good; it is evil.

there is no coercion to converts to islam . Only consequence. You don't have to believe in God. You don't have to pray. It is commanded for your own good, but you do not have to do it. In the end, there is only consequences. You make the choice and bear the consequence.
This life is only a test, and God has sent many messengers warning of the Fire. If we do not heed their warning, then we must bear the consequence. It is only a call for us, to do unto others as we would want for ourselves.
if you do not need islam you are have the freedom

 

[Scott Free]

there is no coercion to converts to islam . Only consequence. You don't have to believe in God. You don't have to pray. It is commanded for your own good, but you do not have to do it. In the end, there is only consequences. You make the choice and bear the consequence.

Again you lie. Many people are considered Muslim from birth. Look at Egypt for example where your religion is on your birth certificate.

Why do you keep lying? Does a jinn whisper in your ear?

This life is only a test, and God has sent many messengers warning of the Fire.

No, god has not. There have been many people who have claimed to be from god. That is very different then being from god.

If we do not heed their warning, then we must bear the consequence.

The consequences are meted out by people who believe in god not by god. I piss on your Qur'an and nothing has happened to me? I piss on god too! Where is my punishment? If I lived in Iran I would be put to death - that isn't god, that is crazy zealots.

It is only a call for us, to do unto others as we would want for ourselves.
if you do not need islam you are have the freedom

Only because I live in a free non Islamic country. If Islam were the dominant religion I wouldn't be free.

It isn't freedom Islam seeks; it seeks subjugation and unquestioning obedience to the tyrant god called Muhammad.

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

Don't know exactly what you're trying to say here...have you tried Babelfish?

Yahoo! Babel Fish - Text Translation and Web Page Translation

Anyway...killing for any reason other than self-defense or defense of your family is unjust...

why we follow your laws ? your laws do not coercion we to follow him !!

Killing someone because they choose not to follow your religion is savage...:angryfire:

if they need to leave the islam country

they the free

but not make the problem in that country..:angryfire:

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

Again you lie. Many people are considered Muslim from birth. Look at Egypt for example where your religion is on your birth certificate.

Why do you keep lying? Does a jinn whisper in your ear?

then what even cirstian in Egypt them religion is on your birth certificate .

Why do you keep lying? Does a jinn whisper in your ear?

No, god has not. There have been many people who have claimed to be from god. That is very different then being from god.

If there is only one God, then why are there so many religions?

All religions originated with Allah and then people began to add or take away from the teachings so as to take control over each other.

This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religious Way of life for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you to surrender and submit to me in peace as your religious way of life..



[Holy Quran 5:3]



Allah does not force anyone to submit to Him. He has laid out a clear path and then made it known to them the two ways (Heaven or Hell). The person is always free to make his or her own choice.

There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in taghut (false gods and false worship) and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

Allah is the Wali (Protector or Guardian) of those who believe. He brings them out from darkness into light. But as for those who disbelieve, their Auliya (supporters and helpers) are Taghut [false gods and false worship.], they bring them out from light into darkness. Those are the dwellers of the Fire, and they will remain there forever.



[Holy Quran 2:256-257]



There is no compulsion in the way of "Islam." Whoever chooses to worship Allah without partners and is devoted to Him and is obeying His commands as much as possible has grasped the firm handhold that will never break. Whoever denies God and chooses some other way to worship or not to believe at all, for them there is an eternal punishment that is most horrible (Hell).

People began to seperate into different groups due to their rejection of truth and denial of clear proofs becoming evident to them from their Lord.

And the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) differed not amongst themselves until after clear evidence came to them.

And they were not commanded anything more than this; to worship Allah, alone (without making partners with Him in worship) and establish regular devotional prayers and pay the charity due to the poor; and this is the correct Way (way of life and religion).

[Holy Quran 98:4-5]



Allah warns the Muslims not to fall into the same trap as the people before them, by disputing with each other and seperating into different religious groups:

And be not as those who divided and differed among themselves after the clear proofs had come to them. It is they for whom there is an awful torment.


On the Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) when some faces will become white and some faces will become black; as for those whose faces will become black (to them will be said): "Did you reject Faith after accepting it? Then taste the torment (in Hell) for rejecting Faith."

[Holy Quran 3:105-106]



People lied about the revelations, changed their scriptures and abused and even murdered the prophets whom Allah sent to them.

And verily, among them is a party who distort the Book with their tongues (as they read), so that you may think it is from the Book, but it is not from the Book, and they say: "This is from Allah," but it is not from Allah; and they speak a lie against Allah while they know it.


It is not (possible) for any human being to whom Allah has given the Book and Al-Hukma (the knowledge and understanding of the laws of religion, etc.) and Prophethood to say to the people: "Be my worshippers rather than Allah's." On the contrary (he would say): "Be you Rabbaniyun (learned men of religion who practice what they know and also preach others), because you are teaching the Book, and you are studying it."

[Holy Quran 3:78-79]



Prophets of Allah only ask people to worship Allah, as One God without partners. They would never ask people to worship them or anyone or anything else. Allah tells us in the Quran:

Nor would he (a messenger of Allah) order you to take angels and Prophets for lords (gods). Would he order you to disbelieve after you have submitted to Allah's Will?



[Holy Quran 3:80]



Man made religions are an abomination before the Lord and will never be accepted.

Do they seek other than the regious way of life of Allah (the true Islamic Monotheism worshipping none but Allah Alone), while to Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned.

[Holy Quran 3:83]



Allah will only accept true submission, obedience and in purity and peace to His commandments.

And whoever seeks a Way of life other than submission and surrender to Allah's Will (Islam), it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.



[Holy Quran 3:85]



To believe in Allah and follow His Commandments has been the message of all prophets of monotheism.

The consequences are meted out by people who believe in god not by god. If I lived in Iran I would be put to death - that isn't god, that is crazy zealots.

this life just test


006.112

Sahih International: And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another decorative speech in delusion. But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them and that which they invent.

 

[Scott Free]

why we follow your laws ? your laws do not coercion we to follow him !!

You follow our laws because there are men with guns that will shoot you if you don't.

if they need to leave the islam country

they the free

Seriously...? What about the people that can't leave - the women and children? And where are they supposed to go exactly to escape Islamic tyranny?

but not make the problem in that country..:angryfire:

I don't know how to talk to someone who advocates tyranny... I've never encountered that before.

Maybe the whole middle east really should be nuked off the map? Maybe Bush was right?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

why we follow your laws ? your laws do not coercion we to follow him !!

Never heard of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

That includes you Alabamallama...

if they need to leave the islam country

they the free

but not make the problem in that country..:angryfire:

Why should they have to leave their homes because you don't agree with their choice of religion.

I know a couple apostates from Islam...it is precisely your way of thinking that caused them to abandon it as a false religion.

They are nice people, but they are Christians now, which is no better to me, but at least they weren't killed by your ridiculous and savage Mob of Mohammed...that would have been far worse...

 

[Scott Free]

then what even cirstian in Egypt them religion is on your birth certificate .

No, that is a fact. Anyone can google the truth.

this life just test

Then you fail because you follow a jinn.

 

[eanassir]

Yes.

So Muhammad was the jinn which is why he said to kill anyone who didn't worship him.

So even though Muslims and Christians worship the same god, Muhammad said to kill the apostate because they didn't worship him (Muhammad).

So you think it is bad jinn that don't like Islam but really it is the good jinn who oppose it!!

lol it is quite a mess you're in!

These are only some of your lies; and - before all people - you are obviously a liar.

This is because you said Mohammed was a jinn (genie); and then you said he received the revelation from a genie.

This is in the Quran 23: 70​

أَمْ يَقُولُونَ بِهِ جِنَّةٌ بَلْ جَاءهُم بِالْحَقِّ وَأَكْثَرُهُمْ لِلْحَقِّ كَارِهُونَ​

The explanation:
(Or do they say: "He is possessed by demons [: genies]"?
Actually, he has brought them the truth, but most of them are averse from the truth.)​

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And by such of your lies you want to confuse the matter by being so smart! ​

 

[Scott Free]

These are only some of your lies; and - before all people - you are obviously a liar.

This is because you said Mohammed was a jinn (genie); and then you said he received the revelation from a genie.

I wasn't talking to you.

But I was speculating on why he is such an evil bastard.

This is in the Quran 23: 70​

أَمْ يَقُولُونَ بِهِ جِنَّةٌ بَلْ جَاءهُم بِالْحَقِّ وَأَكْثَرُهُمْ لِلْحَقِّ كَارِهُونَ​

Scribbles? Why do you let people scribble in the Quran?

The explanation:
"He is possessed by demons [: genies]"?
​

See? Told ya ;-)

 

[eanassir]

The apostasy

There were two camps: the camp of Prophet Mohammed – salam be to him – and the believers with him on one hand, and the camp of the idolaters on the other hand.

The idolaters launched many campaigns against the prophet so as to cut the believers off: they came with an army three double the number of the believers then they failed,
and came again with an army also three folds the number of the believers and could not achieve their goal,
then they brought the allies of the Arab tribes and besieged the city of the prophet and his followers, and they were not successful in all such wars.
The "Jihad" the Holy War)

Therefore, anyone who apostatized from the Islam – in addition to his apostasy – will usually go to the side of the enemy or will act as a spy, or as of one of the "fifth column", or will be a traitor like many of persons who belonged to this land and know a lot of the truth, and yet they are some of traitors.​

eanassir
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com​

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Therefore, anyone who apostatized from the Islam – in addition to his apostasy – will usually go to the side of the enemy or will act as a spy, or as of one of the "fifth column", or will be a traitor like many of persons who belonged to this land and know a lot of the truth, and yet they are some of traitors.

So this is your justification for murder?

Savage!

:angryfire:

 

[eanassir]

So this is your justification for murder?

Savage!

:angryfire:

No murder, and not savage.
To kill any person without the latter having committed any murder, or having committed mischief and corruption in the land; this is the murder.

And it will be as if he has killed all people; because man may have a large number of springs; and so by killing him as if he killed all people. This is in the Quran telling about the commandment of God in the Torah.

God - be exalted - said in the Quran

5: 32​

مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَى بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَن قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ​

The explanation:
(For that reason, We prescribed for the Children of Israel that
whosoever kills a human-being, for other than [the retaliation of] man-slaughter or corruption in the earth, it [:his punishment] shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and whoso saves the life of one, it [his reward]shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind)​

And He said in the Quran 17: 33​

وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللّهُ إِلاَّ بِالحَقِّ​

The explanation:
(And kill not the soul which God has forbidden [its killing] save by a right [cause].)​

The savage indeed is the liar, who knows the truth about God and His commands in the Quran, and knows who the true murderers all over the history were:
They were only:
1- The enemies of God (wrongdoers, disbelievers, associaters, idolaters and atheists who did not admit God's religion)
2- And the men who deceitfully and hypocrytically related themselves to God's way.​

God does not wrong people; but the atheist insists on something which he knows very well to be false.​

 

[eanassir]

Scribbles? Why do you let people scribble in the Quran?

The Quran is full of wisdom, and you cannot confound the truth by insisting on your lies.
This is in the Quran 65: 11​

قَدْ أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ إِلَيْكُمْ ذِكْرًا . رَّسُولًا يَتْلُو عَلَيْكُمْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ مُبَيِّنَاتٍ لِّيُخْرِجَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّورِ وَمَن يُؤْمِن بِاللَّهِ وَيَعْمَلْ صَالِحًا يُدْخِلْهُ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا أَبَدًا قَدْ أَحْسَنَ اللَّهُ لَهُ رِزْقًا​

The explanation:
(God has revealed to you an admonition [included in the Quran,
conveyed by Mohammed, who is] a messenger [of God]
reciting to you the revelations of God, evidently indicative [that their source is from God];
to bring forth those who believe and do righteous [works] from [the depths of] darkness [of ignorance and unbelief] to the light [of knowledge and belief.]

Then anyone who believes in God [and abandons the idolatry and the association with God] and does righteous [work], [God] will admit him into Gardens with rivers flowing underneath it[s trees] to abide therein forever; God has indeed granted for such a most excellent provision [in those Gardens.])
​

 

[DurkaDurka]

How many virgins do you guys get when you depart this foul earth?