5 U.S troops accused of rape and murder

[Machjo]

What do you want me to say about Tibet in this forum. I don't preach to the already converted. Am I to start a debate here about Tibetans' rights? We'd all agree. Where's the debate?

Now if I should bring up the topic in a Chinese thread, which I have on occasion, then there'll be debate.

Why would I bring up a topic with which we'd all agree on anyway? It would seem that the US invasion of Iraq has less mutual agreement, and thus more open to debate. If I started a thread about Tibet, I'd probably get no more replies than "I agree" or something to the effect, assuming such a thread would get replies at all.

And again, to assume I'm Chinese because I live in China is rediculous. I'm a Canadian citizen born in Canada to an English Canadian father and and a French Canadian mother tracing her roots back over 400 years to New France.

So where's the Chinese blood in that?

 

[Claudius]

RE: 5 U.S troops accused

So if I understand correctly, my credibility is shattered not by what I say, but by where I live?

No, but why you say what you say does come into question.


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[Claudius]

RE: 5 U.S troops accused

Now if I should bring up the topic in a Chinese thread, which I have on occasion, then there'll be debate.

You have? Really? Well then your credability is up in my eyes.

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[Claudius]

RE: 5 U.S troops accused

And again, to assume I'm Chinese because I live in China is rediculous.

You can "again" all day long. I never gave any indication I assumed you were Chinese, nor did I. I queried if you were posting here or not and if you were chinese. I clearly indicated I didn't know. Ironic really because you're assuming I did.

That you're a Canadian citizen there only re-enforces my point about Chinese citizens having to be careful on the Internet.

 

[Machjo]

If anyone else said this I'd agree they have a point about the mismanagement of the war and perhaps even it's direct connection to this incident.

this does seem to suggest that you are judging the value of what I say based on a flag avatar!

But you're Chinese, or so your flag-avatar would indicate.

This seems to suggest that you've concluded that I'm probably Chinese, even though you do show some doubt.

Am I to assume you're posting from China? Didn't think so.

Here you have clearly concluded, based on what I have not a clue, that I could not possibly be posting from china at the moment.

If you are you're likely a spook because the last time Chinese were posting on forums outside their country (yes, some nations do have 'border firewalls') one of them got 30 years for condemning their government far less than you're condemning the Bush admin.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

Seems to be you could maybe just release all those luscious details of your governments' continuing barbaric actions in Tibet for a nice comparison, but I suppose you're just not in the mood for that.

So here you are clearly saying that the Chinese government is mine! So what details can I reveal of my government which you can't find on-line on your own already. In fact, you could probably find the luscious details more easily than I could due to some censorship in China.

Of course all the Chinese papers regard relations between Tibet and China as "50 years of friendship", so that shouldn't stop you from throwing stones.

So here you are suggesting that I should not criticise the US because China isn't perfect. Based on that, then the US shouldn't criticize other nations because it isn't perfect eitherr... or is it?

I'm just going by what you say.


.[/quote]

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: 5 U.S troops accused

So if I understand correctly, my credibility is shattered not by what I say, but by where I live?

No, but why you say what you say does come into question.


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So being in China or having a Chinese flag immediately makes one suspect of dishonesty. How's that for outright biggoted.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: 5 U.S troops accused

That you're a Canadian citizen there only re-enforces my point about Chinese citizens having to be careful on the Internet.

Sorry, but this one went right over my head. I have no clue what this is supposed to mean. How does a Canadian being in China relate to Chinese needing to be careful over the internet?

 

[Claudius]

RE: 5 U.S troops accused

But you're Chinese, or so your flag-avatar would indicate.

This seems to suggest that you've concluded that I'm probably Chinese, even though you do show some doubt.

Sure if you have a problem with English it does.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

I believe that.

Seems to be you could maybe just release all those luscious details of your governments' continuing barbaric actions in Tibet for a nice comparison, but I suppose you're just not in the mood for that.

So here you are clearly saying that the Chinese government is mine!

lol. You're an idiot and a hypocrite. You don't refer to the American government as 'your' government to an American? The vernacular is well understood to not mean that they own the government. Secondly it's the same post in which I left it up in the air as to whether or not you were Chinese....I did point out I was going along with an assumption that may be wrong. If you don't see it that way well they're your panties you can get them into a twist all you like.

I'm just going by what you say.

No. instead of communicating you're telling me what I said and refusing to listen to what I'm saying in return. You're arguing with yourself.

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[Claudius]

So if I understand correctly, my credibility is shattered not by what I say, but by where I live?

No, but why you say what you say does come into question.

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So being in China or having a Chinese flag immediately makes one suspect of dishonesty. How's that for outright biggoted.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah that's what that means. You're the one being dishonest. You know full well that's not what that means no matter how much you try and twist it. Like a typical dolt now you're trying so desperately to play a race card. The argument has no legs if you can comprehend English properly. The reference was to the fact that many Chinese have to be careful about what they say on the Internet. You want to ignore that and spin it into a bullshit claim of bigotry. That the Chinese have to be careful of wyhat they say is fact not racisim.

You're still arguing what you wish I said not what I did say.

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[Machjo]

I'm not denying there's censorship in China, but you are blowing it 100 times out of proportion. You'd be surprised at how much open criticism of the government is allowed in the papers as long as the position of the body politic is not directly challenged.

So yes, it's censorship. Much more than in Canada. but you're making it sound as if criticising the colour of the Chinese flag will land you in a re-education camp.

 

[Said1]

Give it a rest Claudius.

I think I can speak for most when I say Machjo is ok, regardless of where he's location.





Machjo:

I just checked out the forum you mentioned and you're right, there's some intereting, uncensored threads and debates happening. At least they're not censored at my end. :wink:

 

[Claudius]

RE: 5 U.S troops accused

Give it a rest Claudius.

I think I can speak for most when I say Machjo is ok, regardless of where he's location.

Please don't tell me what to do unless you're going to say please. I don't appreciate having my words twisted and being called bigoted over something someone knows full well is false. There's nothing "ok" about that and I don't do it to others. If he's "ok" then let him show it and we can both tone it down.

If he's "OK" then maybe he can try and read what I was trying to say instead of trying to spin it. Personally I never get involved in anothers argument even if I think theyr'e "Ok".

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[Claudius]

RE: 5 U.S troops accused

Machjo

I'm not denying there's censorship in China, but you are blowing it 100 times out of proportion. You'd be surprised at how much open criticism of the government is allowed in the papers as long as the position of the body politic is not directly challenged.

So yes, it's censorship. Much more than in Canada. but you're making it sound as if criticising the colour of the Chinese flag will land you in a re-education camp.

If I may say I appreciate the way you're speaking to me instead of attaacking me. I apologize if I was coming across as attacking you. Its not really my intent, I just feel there is often a misguided need to always point out critisizim of the US biut never anyone else. You say you're critical of China, or another, here and there as well? That's good enough for me. Furthermore I can't see anything quoted above that I disagree with, except perhaps this:

So yes, it's censorship. Much more than in Canada. but you're making it sound as if criticising the colour of the Chinese flag will land you in a re-education camp.

I will conceed that perhaps it does sound like that's what I'm making it sound like, but it isn't. I'm not as naive as maybe you think. None the less they do have to be careful. Can we agree to that?

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[Said1]

Re: RE: 5 U.S troops accused

Give it a rest Claudius.

I think I can speak for most when I say Machjo is ok, regardless of where he's location.

Please don't tell me what to do unless you're going to say please. I don't appreciate having my words twisted and being called bigoted over something someone knows full well is false. There's nothing "ok" about that and I don't do it to others. If he's "ok" then let him show it and we can both tone it down.

If he's "OK" then maybe he can try and read what I was trying to say instead of trying to spin it. Personally I never get involved in anothers argument even if I think theyr'e "Ok".

.

Whatever. :roll:

 

[Claudius]

Ok. "Whatever".

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[Machjo]

Give it a rest Claudius.

I think I can speak for most when I say Machjo is ok, regardless of where he's location.





Machjo:

I just checked out the forum you mentioned and you're right, there's some intereting, uncensored threads and debates happening. At least they're not censored at my end. :wink:

Oh, there is censorship of individual posts sometimes. I know this because some of mine have been in the past, and sometimes you'll read a post along the lines of:

"Hey, mods, where the hell did my post go! Why is it that every time I mention something the Dalai Lama, my post disappears!"

Generally speaking, the stuff which is most censored has to do with and anything to do with separation, be it Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang, etc. Take a close look at those threads in China Daily, and you'll see two tipes of threds in short supply:

1. Openly challenging the authority of the government.
2. Ethnic tensions!

Most everything else is OK. Though you will find that nationalism is, well, dare I say, reaching worrisome levels among the general population. Much of the opinions you'll read there do in fact reflect general consensus, and is not just government propaganda. Many Chinese would indeed fight for Taiwan or to keep Tibet in China, and sincerely beleive that Tibet, Xinjiang etc. genuinely belong to China by historical right!

 

[Machjo]

By the way, I'm ticked off right now. I just found out why my computer's been crashing so much lately. I've got a fe kilobytes of spyware highjacking my computer. I traced it to my C dirve, tried to delete, it, no use. And even when I succeeded to delete part of it, it came back the next day. I was so ticked off I wanted to trace the source so I could send them a nasty e-mail and, if necessary, report them to the authorites.

Well lo and behold, here's the site which is highjacking my computer:

http://www.cnnic.cn

It's a nice smiley site showing how it's a non-profit organization doin' soo much good for the community while highjacking my feckin' computer.

well, if they want to spy on me, I don;t give a rat's. But if they're goin' to suck up a few kilobytes from my hard drive to do so, then the least they could do is give me an extra hard drive damn it!

Sorry, I just had to rant at that.

 

[Machjo]

Oh, I should clarify something though. The Chinese are generally not in danger should they talk politics on-line, though alot of the ethnic stuff might be censored. But that's the worst which will usually happen there. The real issue is if you start actively promoting a challenge to the government. Only then does it become an issue, and at that stage you'd better watch out, 'cause they're commin' to your door.

Hmmm... Now that my computer's highjacked, perhaps I should start to limit myself to the French section of canadian Content?

 

[Machjo]

By the way, that's one reason why I think Voice of America could play a very important role in US cultural policy in future.

Let's look at China, for example. Many blame all the problems on the Chinese government. Without a doubt many in the Chinese government have engineering degrees from Qinghua or other technical universities, but know squat about social and ethnic issues, one reaon why China is witnessing such phenominal technical and economic progress while it's internal ethnic relations are going to shit.

Anyway, to assume that the US could solve the problem just by eliminating the government is dead wrong. Most Chinese beleive Taiwan is part of China, as is Tibet as is Inner Mongolia as is Xinjiang. Try putting it to popular vote, and they'll vote the same party back in most likely, just like the popular vote is giving Iraq theocracy.

If the US really wants to make change in CHina, it's not by engaging China militarily or politically, but rather on the cultural front. From that standpoint, VOA is much more up to the task than any aircraft carrier fleet, or diplomatic mission.