$2.1Billion for military machines

[Karlin]

Canada is on a slippery slope to militarism, from our former status as peacekeepers. Now we are throwing money at it.
The Defence Minister is happy, as are his former business partners he used to lobby for , before he got elected and started signing government cheques for large amounts, to those same friends in the military, boatbuilding, and death industries:
What's 15 billion dollars?
http://tinyurl.com/h53l3

The whole idea of the Canada-USA occupation of Afghanistan, being there killing Afghans that Karzai himself describes as "ordinary people of Afghanistan" [the Taliban], is coming under greater fire than from just Me!! -

[b]Labour Peace Forum Calls for Canadian Withdrawal from Afghanistan[/b]
June 26-2006
http://tinyurl.com/hp5ke

Labour leaders from throughout the world expressed their support for the immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq and Afghanistan at the labour forum, part of the Worold Peace Forum held in Vancouver yesterday.

It is the USA policies and treacherous deadly ways that are the problem, Canada would do well to separate itself from the USA cabal of terrorist soldiers and corrupr government.

HERE is the best example of a group of important educated people saying this same thing -
U.S. policy on Afghan mission costing Canadian lives, think-tank says
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/060628/w062826.html

Canadian troops and Afghan civilians are paying with their lives because of failing U.S. policies that focus on elimination of the opium poppy crop, says a report by a policy think-tank

I remember a Canadian general saying in March 2006 that the Cdn troops WOULD NOT be eradicating poppies there in Afghnistan, because they were not trying to hurt the locals, they wanted to gain their support. Then, USA troops start taking down poppy crops - reason after reason why Canada must separate ourselves in as many ways as possible from the great American backwardness and criminal government.

Karlin

 

[Mogz]

Canadian participation in the war in Afghanistan, especially since our role has changed from an attempt to be involved in peacekeeping to one of active engagement in battles, and called for the immediate withdrawal of Canadian troops.

I read that line and i'm done with the whole thing. The bolded part caused me to just move my mouse and close the window. I'm not going to read tripe posted by people who clearly don't have a grasp on what we're doing there to begin with.

 

[Claudius]

Canada is on a slippery slope to militarism, from our former status as peacekeepers. Now we are throwing money at it.

What 'status' as peacekeepers? I gather you are referring to the one you never kept personal track of and instead took the constant word of the newspapers over. Fuji has contributed more to peacekeeping than us.

Peacekeeping vs. Peacemaking is not an ideological debate. One is not 'good' while the other is not 'bad'. They are two separate things entirely. The right tool for the right job.

It is the USA policies and treacherous deadly ways that are the problem, Canada would do well to separate itself from the USA cabal of terrorist soldiers and corrupt government.

You can't say this an expect to be taken seriously. If I say an apple is an orange over and over and over and over and over again it's still an apple. All this last line shows is that you know more about the latest 'talking points' and nothing at all about the situation in Afghanistan.

From your "15Billion dollars?" link:

Meanwhile, it is National Defense week in Canada, with the government heralding spending of $15 billion on military equipment. Keeping one step ahead of their critics, and avoiding the national media, the Conservatives spread out across the country to spread the word.

Exactly how do you 'herald the spending of $15 billion on military equipment and avoid the national media at the same time? There is no decent reasoning to say that the PM is avoiding the media except that it sounds convincing to suckers.

From your "Afghan mission costing lives" link:

Canadian troops and Afghan civilians are paying with their lives because of failing U.S. policies that focus on elimination of the opium poppy crop, says a report by a policy think-tank.

The poppy eradication campaign has driven rural farmers into such extreme poverty they are shifting their support to the Taliban because the international community and the Afghan government are not doing enough to meet their basic needs, says the report by the London-based Senlis Council.

So which is it? We're paying with our lives because we "failed to eradicate the poppies" (which was never a mission from the get go), or because we have successfully eradicated the poppies are driving, "rural farmers into such extreme poverty they are shifting their support to the Taliban because the international community and the Afghan government are not doing enough to meet their basic needs"? Which is it? Either they are making money off of the best crop in years or they are suffering because the poppies are "not there". The writer of the article is quite clueless to the situation but know how to compose things to make it sound otherwise, and bad.

I think it would be important to note also that the casualty ratio is about 210 - 1 in our favour at the moment. to read the article above you'd think it was Vietnam with some units receiving as high as 50% casualty rates. Again, one can say "Vietnam" over an over again and it still isn't.

Canadian participation in the war in Afghanistan, especially since our role has changed from an attempt to be involved in peacekeeping to one of active engagement in battles, and called for the immediate withdrawal of Canadian troops.

100% false and proof positive that people will yak about anything like they know what’s going on even when they don't. Canadian mission in Afghanistan has involved hunting and capturing/killing Taliban militants since day one. The perception that the mission is changed is thanks to the fact that while the previous government was in office our activates in Tora Bora/Anaconda et. al. were kept very quiet. We have been shooting them since day 1. There is no change of mission besides the names.


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[EastSideScotian]

Re: RE: $2.1Billion for military machines

Nice thinking aeon, but you fail to realize that everything that is being purchased, is of a logistical nature. Transport trucks, lift helicopters, transport planes, replenishment ships. Nothing that is being bought is of an aggressive nature. Their roles are clearly defined in a theatre of Operations, as well in Canada itself. You really need to stop being so damned suburban.

Hey, we are the 15th best army in the world, yes i admit, it needs some repairs, but we should starting abolishing military in the world if we really want something called PEACE.

YOU MEAN WE SPEND THE 15TH MOST MONEY!!


As for being the best Armys...We are top notch, We have one of the Best training plans in action, Our troops are trained better than almost all western troops, Definatly better than the US army, Our reservists are even better than their regular force....and they recive about as much training... I am going into the Army as a Combat Engineer, Unfortunetly I took a pill of extacy 2 years ago to see what the hype was all about, and then I admited it in pre-screening after aceing my apt tests, but they asured me to come back in 6 monts and ill get my selected trade.

We are trained extreamly well, my uncle who was at one point a Vandoo, was telling me about war games with England and france and the states back in the 70`s and 80`s where we would rock the pants off them. Even though our forces are smaller now, theya re trained even ebtter than abck then, where as the states have dauled down their training so they can push troops out into combat quicker...after boot camp.....We have Boot camp and then we have more combat camp after you pass boot camp...

to add to what Mogz saind about US Com Engs, they get 2 weeks training or somethig, and they arent screened to see if theya re apt to do the task, they can do whichever they like after signing up, we are told after doing a test what we are suited for, so if your not ment to be a amoured tank driver they wont let you, or if you dont have the brains to be a combat engineer they wont let. The usa lets you do what you like as long as you have a 60% average in school and can do push ups.

Anywa long story short, we have definatly a top 3 army, Our air force is extreamly good too, they win numorus dog fight comps with crappy hornets.

 

[Mogz]

100% false and proof positive that people will yak about anything like they know what’s going on even when they don't. Canadian mission in Afghanistan has involved hunting and capturing/killing Taliban militants since day one. The perception that the mission is changed is thanks to the fact that while the previous government was in office our activates in Tora Bora/Anaconda et. al. were kept very quiet. We have been shooting them since day 1. There is no change of mission besides the names.

Well put Claudius. We did some serious fighting in the Tora Bora region, something largely ignored by the media and the Canadian public. Operation Anaconda was our largest combat offensive since the Korean War. The Battle of the Shah-i-Kot Valley earned Canadian snipers U.S. Bronze Stars for their actions. Hell, Operation Torii was conceived, planned, and executed soley by the 3rd Battalion Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. The truth, which the public either fails to understand, or simply doesn't want to, is that we joined the WAR on Terror in 2001. Since landing in Afghanistan, we've been at War, nothing has changed, other than as Claudius pointed out, the name of the Operation, with exception to our general role. In Kandahar we were immeresed with the U.S. 101st Airborne Divisions 3rd Brigade Air Assault Combat Team, consisting of:

1st Battalion 187th Infantry Regiment
2nd Battalion 187th Infantry Regiment
3rd Battalion Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry
3rd Reconnaissance Squadron 187th Infantry Regiment
B Squadron (Recce) Lord Strathconna's Horse (Royal Canadians)
3rd Battalion 320th Field Artillery Regiment
D Battery 1st Royal Canadian Horse Artillery
626th Brigade Support Battalion
1st Canadian Service Battalion

When we moved to Kabul, we went to provide security for the election, and to secure Kabul, where we raided weapons caches, knocked out militant cells, and conducted sweep and recon missions in the mountains, engaging militans daily. When we went back to Kandahar this Spring, we took a bigger role in the War, using our skills as excellent soldiers with excellent equipment to take the fight to the enemy and do to Kandahar, Gumbad, and Helmand Provinces, what we did in Kabul. Pacify it.

 

[Claudius]

I love this quote from the London based "Think Tank" --

The policy group also accused the Canadian military of accidentally killing innocent civilians during security raids.

"The deaths of innocent Kandahar civilians at the hands of the Canadian military has come to symbolize to the local population Canadian indifference to the Afghan people and to symbolize the failing mission in southern Afghanistan," the policy group says.

Huh? I get the serious impression this "think tank" has never left their building.


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[Lineman]

Canada is on a slippery slope to militarism, from our former status as peacekeepers.

Karlin

I would be interested in your opinion of exactly what a Canadian "peacekeeper" did as opposed to what they do now. Do you actually believe they never killed anyone who threatened or opposed them? Were those blue berets more bullet proof than CADPAT helmets?

 

[Mogz]

Canada is on a slippery slope to militarism, from our former status as peacekeepers.

Karlin

I would be interested in your opinion of exactly what a Canadian "peacekeeper" did as opposed to what they do now. Do you actually believe they never killed anyone who threatened or opposed them? Were those blue berets more bullet proof than CADPAT helmets?

The Canadian "Peacekeepers" in Croatia in the early 90's fought the Croatians Army on a regular basis, despite their blue helmets and U.N. Flags.

 

[Lineman]

People keep ringing doorbells and runnin away. Questions and no response.....