$14Billion/yr spent on the 1 in 2 Canadian females who will

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
1,275
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"1 in 2 women in Canada will get breast cancer" says the Cancer Society.

We spent $14Billion every year on cancer TREATMENTS in Canada.

Cancer PREVENTION gets something like $1billion , but many say that is too little to spend on prevention.

Actually, like most other posts I make, the problem of prevention is a corporate one. They are not regulated beyond what their competitiveness can bear, and they complain that changing would cost them too much.

The chemical companies are saying their products don't cause cancer because it is too small of an amount of carcinogen in each item. However, we know it is the accumulations of all the products' carcinogens that gets us, we now know that that is the reason every other Canadian will get cancer at some point in their lives.



If you don't believe me, watch CBC's Marketplace show this Sunday eve. [7pm?]
WENDY MESLEY is the host, doing her first show after getting breast cancer. She is p*ssed off, though still alive. She now has a better awareness of what is going on.

She got her blood tested for known carcinogens, and there were plenty. We all have this now, it wasn't so not long ago that our blood didn't have these chemicals in it, when the cancer rates were a small percentage of what they are now. She has made the connection, and it is not denied. Just ignored. [By you too, btw]

She says the heartbreak is that our kids are certain to get it, we didn't get the worst of it as kids like they do nowadays. At current exposures over a lifetimes, the rate will become 1 to 1 chance of cancer in the next generations.

We can change that though, if we stop exposing our kids to these products. The average consumer prchases are the main source for most people. Other toxic sources could be cleaned up too, it won't destroy the economy, thats not realistic.

They know , but they don't act, they have a good thing going. Its economics. Media does not report things like this unless Health Canada reports it to them first, its the way it is done....


Then there is the concern about spending so much on TREATMENTS. It might be better to stop pursuing treatments so money will go to prevention.

Treatment budgets might be motivation for causing cancer - corporations and governments have done worse things, like wars.


Treatments do actually cause cancer - radiation therapy gives you another type of cancer. Thats the way it is done tho. It is not denied.

CURES?? Cancer therapy is all about keeping us on therapy for the rest of our lives, it is not a cure at all.

They even go so far as to say "survival is defined as living for 5 years after diagnosis". So, when we hear stats like people are surviving cancer more now, thats all it means.


Things are much worse overall in the cancer war, not better. And nobody has "officially" found a cause or a cure in all these years of multi-billion-dollar research. Isn't that a bit odd?

The furthest they go is to define dangerous chemicals as "Suspected carcinogens that won't hurt you as long as they are below this level of exposure".

Anyhow, sorry for the long post, I have so much more to say too... but WATCH THE SHOW Sunday eve.

It is called : "Chasing the Cancer Answer"

Here is the CBC website :
http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
RE: $14Billion/yr spent o

Yes I heard Wendy speak this morning, what about the product labeling that we don,t have this side of the pond.I heard her say that the prevention message was esentially the same for thirty years, don,t smoke and eat your vegetables, there is to much chemical shit loose in our environment.
 

cortez

Council Member
Feb 22, 2006
1,260
0
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RE: $14Billion/yr spent on the 1 in 2 Canadian females who w

We are poisoning our bodies at an exponential rate. Breast cancer is only one of the cancers being increasingly seen- and at incredibly younger ages. It is hard to prevent our exposure to environmental carcinogens but I fully agree, we can certainly try to reduce the ones within our control like eating better and not smoking. Another important factor clearly linked to cancer is stress as it damages our immune system- clearly we are also living more stressful lives with less family support, more job pressures and more social pressures to have more "stuff"
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
RE: $14Billion/yr spent on the 1 in 2 Canadian females who w

1 in 2? I find that extremely hard to believe. The highest figures I've heard are 1in 8 and that meant your lifetime risk.

And if you don't think treatments for cancer have improved, you're just crazy. People today are living when they would have been dead 20 years ago. That's an improvement.
 

cortez

Council Member
Feb 22, 2006
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RE: $14Billion/yr spent on the 1 in 2 Canadian females who w

Certainly cancer treatment has improved, but that doesn't change the fact that the best treatment is prevention.
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
1,275
2
38
Re: RE: $14Billion/yr spent on the 1 in 2 Canadian females w

tracy said:
1 in 2? I find that extremely hard to believe. The highest figures I've heard are 1in 8 and that meant your lifetime risk.

And if you don't think treatments for cancer have improved, you're just crazy. People today are living when they would have been dead 20 years ago. That's an improvement.

Thanks for the reply tracy. However, I am still horrified at the way we deal with cancer here in North America.

Improved length of time spent dying with cancer is all that stat is, and for me, it ain't worth $14B.

What is it worth to live an extra year doing cancer treatment? Compared to homelessness or other health problems, we are spending WAYYYYYYYY too much on cancer therapy for that extra year of suffering.
 

ashley_rb

New Member
Mar 2, 2006
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RE: $14Billion/yr spent on the 1 in 2 Canadian females who w

Economically, finding a cure would be a disaster for drug companies, the economy, for everyone. Think about it.

Cancer is no longer a disease, its an industry. Drug companies don't make money curing diseases, they make profit treating them.

Finding a cure would cripple the north american economy, put a lot of people out of work including health care professionals not to mention drug company workers.

We have made a lot of advances in many area's. Yet with all this technology and science, cancer seems to be one disease "they" just can't seem to get a handle on. Hmmm.

Is it a study or a great marketing campaign to fuel the interests of societies, foundations and drug companies? 2 in 1? Think of the profit of that one statement means to a drug company. That's a lot of treatment which means a lot of profit.

Start seeing cancer for what it is: an industry. 14 billion? How about worldwide? How much alone in U.S. is the cancer industry worth? How many people are employed in the industry including health care workers, developers, researchers, drug company employees?

One thing you won't hear on the CBC's report, just how lucritive and valueable the cancer industry is to the Canadian economy.

Sad really. But it is the one part of cancer we don't hear about.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
Re: RE: $14Billion/yr spent on the 1 in 2 Canadian females w

Karlin said:
tracy said:
1 in 2? I find that extremely hard to believe. The highest figures I've heard are 1in 8 and that meant your lifetime risk.

And if you don't think treatments for cancer have improved, you're just crazy. People today are living when they would have been dead 20 years ago. That's an improvement.

Thanks for the reply tracy. However, I am still horrified at the way we deal with cancer here in North America.

Improved length of time spent dying with cancer is all that stat is, and for me, it ain't worth $14B.

What is it worth to live an extra year doing cancer treatment? Compared to homelessness or other health problems, we are spending WAYYYYYYYY too much on cancer therapy for that extra year of suffering.

You're really assuming a lot there. That stat doesn't mean just an extra year spent suffering with cancer. I wonder what your experience is with cancer treatment to give you that impression. A lot of people with cancer have been cured. Leukemia in particular is a great example. Children can recover from it and go on to live long lives. Testicular cancer, breast cancer, cervical cancer, skin cancer, bladder cancer... there are very effective treatments for a lot of types of cancer. My mom had bladder cancer and cervical cancer in her 30s. She's in her 60s now, so I think the treatment was worth it.

Even those that aren't cured are often giving a lot of good time with their families. My friend's mother will see her get married this summer thanks to chemotherapy. Was her treatment worth it? I'm sure she'd say it was. A few weeks of feeling sick in exchange for the last 2 years enjoying life with her family seems like a bargain to me. My cousin's daughter was born with a brain tumor that will eventually kill her. The docs said she had 2 years at most. She's 7 now and an absolute joy to be around. She will ultimately lose the battle against cancer, but I don't think her life is of no value because of that. I don't think we should have just let her die as an infant to save some money for causes you prefer. Many people seem to forget that medical advances sometimes come from trying new treatments on people and those people won't all survive. Their deaths will help find treatments to save countless other lives in the future.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
Re: RE: $14Billion/yr spent on the 1 in 2 Canadian females w

ashley_rb said:
Economically, finding a cure would be a disaster for drug companies, the economy, for everyone. Think about it.

Cancer is no longer a disease, its an industry. Drug companies don't make money curing diseases, they make profit treating them.

Finding a cure would cripple the north american economy, put a lot of people out of work including health care professionals not to mention drug company workers.

We have made a lot of advances in many area's. Yet with all this technology and science, cancer seems to be one disease "they" just can't seem to get a handle on. Hmmm.

Is it a study or a great marketing campaign to fuel the interests of societies, foundations and drug companies? 2 in 1? Think of the profit of that one statement means to a drug company. That's a lot of treatment which means a lot of profit.

Start seeing cancer for what it is: an industry. 14 billion? How about worldwide? How much alone in U.S. is the cancer industry worth? How many people are employed in the industry including health care workers, developers, researchers, drug company employees?

One thing you won't hear on the CBC's report, just how lucritive and valueable the cancer industry is to the Canadian economy.

Sad really. But it is the one part of cancer we don't hear about.

Lucrative to the economy? Especially in a country like Canada where the government foots the bill, you have got to be kidding. If they could save any money by curing cancer, trust me they would. In healthcare in particular, the drive is for cures which is why survival and cure rates have increased so much over the last few decades. A lot of medical advances have cost jobs, but new ones always come up. I'm sure a lot of docs and nurses had fewer patients when vaccines were developed for diseases like polio, but that didn't stop the production and distribution of those vaccines. There will always be other, much more profitable diseases to treat than cancer. The big ones affect more people, and last much longer. Think of the number of people receiving treatment for diabetes, heart disease, obesity, mental illness... it's WAY higher than cancer and those people will often get treatment for decades. Plus, the argument that it is so profitable to treat cancer with chemo ignores the fact that chemo is hard and expensive to develop.

Any drug company that could cure cancer would make a fortune. Can you imagine being able to charge anything you want for that cure? People who think that scientists haven't found cures for cancer because they don't want to are just glossing over some things. For one, curing a disease isn't easy. Science isn't that advanced in terms of cancer (or other diseases like HIV). It just isn't. We are really in our infancy when it comes to understanding the human body. Look at how many diseases they can't even find a cause for like autism.... Another problem is that "cancer" is a very diverse disease. It affects different parts of the body differently. You wouldn't be able to cure leukemia in the same way that you'd cure breast cancer or lung cancer. Even different people who have tumours affecting the same organs will often require different treatment. That's why two women with breast cancer could get radically different treatment to deal with it. One might get surgery and be done with it. The other might get chemotherapy or radiation. What works on a woman may not work in a man. What works in a child may not work in an adult. What works on a premenopausal woman may not work on an older woman. What works for one ethnic group may not work for another. Even people who are very similar may have different reactions to a drug. That's true of all medicines because our bodies are all unique.... Also, to treat or prevent a disease generally is a lot easier when the cause is easy to discover. Cancer is a multifactorial disease. Genes, diet, lifestyle, environmental factors... you're asking a lot of science to be able to solve all of this with a pill or something.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
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Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: $14Billion/yr spent on the 1 in 2 Canadian females who w

Curing cancer no matter the coast is immportant. Even if it were crash the econmey I'm sure capitalism would surely survive in one form or another, if so I'll take a socialist system too. Using economics to support the idea of not curing canser is weak.
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
1,275
2
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Re:Soft drinks found to have high levels of cancer chemical

Thanks for all the replies.


Products with carcinogenic chemicals in them are common in our society, esp North America where those chemicals have not been regulated out of the consumer's choices.

It is the accumulation of the carcinogenic chemicals in all the various products we use that causes us so much suffering and expense and then death after 5 years. Nobody is responding to this emergency, in this forum or governmental regulators.

Point made in replys that "a cure for cancer would be good for a drug company who finds it": No, drug compaines that find a cure for cancers would NOT make a fortune. They are making a fortune NOW, with treatments that do not cure cancer - it is the repeat and ongoing nature of the treatments that brings in so much ,money [a one-shot cure would be limited that way!!]. That isn't going to change while such huge profits are rolling in - pharmaceutical corporations have had the highest profits of all corporations, until Exxons' remarkable year this year.

Here is one product we could avoid:
Soft drinks found to have high levels of cancer chemical
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2065539,00.html
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
RE: $14Billion/yr spent on the 1 in 2 Canadian females who w

Repeat treatments aren't just done by the same drugs though. It isn't like there is one type of chemotherapy agent or only one way in which drugs are being used to fight cancer. For many types of chemo, you can only get ONE round in your entire life. My cousin's daughter had a round of chemo like that. She can never have it again, so it isn't like the pharmaceutical company will make more money off of her. Plus, chemo isn't the end all and be all. Targetted treatments work in different ways to fight cancer, targetting specific molecules. Some target enzymes responsible for tumour growth, some cause the cancer cells to self destruct, some target blood supply. How easy do you think it is to develop a drug to do that for each type of cancer? Drug companies spend A LOT of money to develop and test these drugs that are very specific, which limits the market and the profit margins just like with any other drug.

The whole "drug comanies are keeping us from finding cures because of the profits" conspiracy theory also just ignores the fact that many people and agencies want cures and have found cures. Certain cancers ARE curable at very high rates. Who was the last youg man you knew that died from testicular cancer? It's the most common form of cancer in young men, but the treatment is so effective that we don't see them dropping dead in the thousands. 8000 or so men are diagnosed with it every year and more than 7600 are cured. Governments all over the world fund research, and it's in their best interests to see a cure. The same can be said of non-profit agencies. And you are also missing the human face on research. Working with those patients doesn't make you want that cure less, it makes you want it more. I work in healthcare in a neonatal intensive care unit. If we somehow found a way to stop premature births, I may be out of a job. But, guess what? I would still love to see that happen. I can get another job. There will always be more areas in healthcare to work in. The same goes for researchers. If they cured cancer, they'd just get started on HIV, TB, malaria, diabetes, heart disease, asthma, autism.... the list goes on and on. When exogenous surfactant was invented premies were given a new lease on life. Survival rates skyrocketed and the cost of treating the surviving children decreased significantly thanks to the benefits of surfactant (shorter intubation times, decreased rate of chronic lung disease which in turn decreases rates of retinopathy, digestive problems, long term disability, etc). No one kept that a secret because it would cut into profits.

The notion that cancer is caused by the chemicals in our products alone is simplistic. I'm having my gallbladder out soon, and that will increase my risk of colon cancer. That has nothing to do with chemicals in my food. My friend has the breast cancer gene. Her risks of getting it are higher than most. That has nothing to do with chemicals.
 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
Re: $14Billion/yr spent on the 1 in 2 Canadian females who w

When you here about the partial demise of the public health care system think of it as being the start of the total demise. There is limited facility and limited Doctors.

Private health care is covered by private insurance and, their first loyality is to their share holders! Insurance Companies will block your whole family and offspring from any chance of coverage once you declare you have had a brush with any kind of cancer!

Likewise immune response disorders and diabetes.

Everyone has carcengens in their system. It's like a base line lead tag that is there because of leaded gasoline. But, not every one gets sick from it; genetics!

And yes, we are on the door step of genetic screening. Better fight hard for the public health system. The vunerable suffer otherwise.
 

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
1,275
2
38
Re: Avoidable cancers list - 2nd report

The Wendy Mesley cancer story was previewed AGAIN, this time on the TV [CBC].

They had another doctor on, and he said something startling:
"There is a list of products that are linked to specific cancers, and Health Canada will not release this list to the public"

So there you go. All arguements out the window about 'them' helping us avoid cancer as much as humanly possible. NOT!!!
{Who are "them"? Health Canada, Medical Associations,Authorities responsible for health care in Canada.

So thats it then, those authorities are clearly siding with industry, with the corporations who produce these carginogenic products we consume unwittingly, over our cancer-free status.

Willing to risk OUR health, OUR lives, for their substantial profits.


HOW CAN WE FIGURE OUT WHAT PRODUCTS WOULD BE ON THIS LIST?
- this is my own idea, not from the media:
The "carcinogenic products" that will be on that 'cancer-causing list' all have ingredients that are derived from petrochemical sources, which are are much cheaper [and therefore give bigger profits].
Instead of choosing those ones, look for products made from non-toxic sources, like flowers and essential oils. They should say if they are non-toxic on the box, and you will have to pay more {try to simply use less each time!] .

Check out health food stores, their staff can help you choose non-toxic products. They will get cheaper the more we buy them. I am poor and I am doing my part [hint].

EG:
- dishwashing detergent made from citrus. I use this now, and clothes detergent that is non-toxic too [not Tide, etc.]
-underarm deordorant - use Colloidal Silver instead
- shampoo - non toxic available
- household cleaners: citrus again, plus good old baking soda and H2O2 [hydrogen peroxide]
- toothpaste: baking soda, H2O2, herbal products
- avoid TEFLON frypans [I got stainless steel now, its great]



General:
I find the common household BRANDS are easily identifyable as things to avoid if you don't want cancer. Besides, it would be good to boycott them for producing the carcinogenic products all these years. There are only a few players left, after buy outs and mergers.
Boycott these, avoid their products for cancer protection:
Procter & Gamble [bought out Gillette]
Unilever [Colgate-Palmolive]

Do you know of any other corporations with associations to carcinogenic products? Please, reply with them, we gotta know this stuff and our government won't release it to us.




Links to non-toxic products:
http://www.herc.org/hhc/MCSfactfict.html

http://www.nontoxic.com/nontoxic/


There, I feel I have done my part. Please get the word out, and watch the CBC show on Sunday night [Marketplace].
Karlin :D [/url]
 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
Re: $14Billion/yr spent on the 1 in 2 Canadian females who w

On packages we buy there is very often a triangle with a (!) in it. This means in a remote way there may in time be shown this has a carcinogen; you can't sue me because I put this on the lable.

The laws require companies to list known carcinogens on their labels and the "known" are on a federal government list which is accessible by internet. It is also published and updated in the Canada Gazette which is published weekly is available on line.

The triangle is no slam-dunk for a carcinogen! It is put on the label to protect the manufacture from law suits! Rather than go through the 20 generation of population testing that is required to prove conclusively it is a carcinogen, they can put on this "Maybe" label.

Crude oil is a known carcinogen. It follows all the derivatives from oil plastics medicines etc. all have the potential for being a carcinogen. Used motor oil as in oil change oil is really up there!

The old truths seem to hold true. We are what we eat. Wash your hands like mom told you to. Best preventative advise out there. Even with this wealth of wisdom which may catch you a cup of coffee and some company for ten minuets is for nothing as it comes back to the genome. Who has the pair that will resist? Who has only a singular which will not?

The work is in. The knowledge is out there and in use. Gender specific is not allowed but genome specific is. Dangerous times we live in and, I fear for our kids.