A challenge to our dear Christian friends.

[MHz]

God provided the playing field (Earth) and all its obstacles (Desires of the flesh) in the playing field.
But on top of that He gave us and element of a spiritual desire that causes us to seek out Him with whatever knowledge we have at the time.

That was Satan's gift to mankind. I admit not many seemed to be in touch with God during the time before the flood but word about 'this one true God' has always been known. Fallen Angels would have been what 'all the others' would have been interacting with.

Consider the sorts of gods created by mankind for worship and adoration throughout its history and you will see that there lies a desire for the spiritual within each soul.

Does spiritual mean 'by thought alone'?
This points to physical beings,
Ge:6:1:
And it came to pass,
when men began to multiply on the face of the earth,
and daughters were born unto them,
Ge:6:2:
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Jude covers what they were doing

But knowledge of God was not always available to mankind, so mankind adapted to a god with what ever knowledge was available at those times.

The problem with all of that, is that mankind is not to blame until....... the knowledge of the real God is made available to us.

How much knowledge is God allowed (% of people) to give without it becoming under the dominion of being part of the kingdom of Heaven. So far it only seems like He needs a few to be able to save the whole. It only gets taken from Satan at a certain point, at the time the blessed hope is made manifest.

If the numbers were reversed for who lived and died in the flood that would mean Satan had control over 8 people, the rest would have all been on 'arks'. Could Satan be called 'ruler'?

 

[mrgrumpy]

Dearest lookie lookie and megahertz:

Thank you for your spirited, although somewhat dense responses throughout this tiresome thread. Your endless quotations from the Book of Myths was largely unread/ignored - I was hoping for somehat more personal responses, but if scriptural nonsense is the best you can come up with, so be it.

Seeing you are so fond of quotations to support the existence of this god of yours, I have one of my own for you:

" I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

Have a lovely, REAL day.

 

[MHz]

Dearest lookie lookie and megahertz:

Thank you for your spirited, although somewhat dense responses throughout this tiresome thread. Your endless quotations from the Book of Myths was largely unread/ignored - I was hoping for somehat more personal responses, but if scriptural nonsense is the best you can come up with, so be it.

Seeing you are so fond of quotations to support the existence of this god of yours, I have one of my own for you:

" I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

Have a lovely, REAL day.

I didn't have to dismiss them, I had never viewed them as being God. I can understand why you dismiss God. That is less important than if He dismisses you.
The quotes aren't in support of it being proof, they are writings that cover His views on various subjects. I doubt many blend with the view you carry.
I was just kidding in the other thread about it being an abandonment issue, I didn't expect you to confirm it.

 

[mrgrumpy]

'...they are writings that cover His views on various subjects"

He has views?

opinions, feelings pehaps? Tempermanents...moods?

'Men, rarely if ever, manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child."

 

[MHz]

Apparently, luckily it is variable and accurate for each situation. You wouldn't want to be the next in line right after He has been chatting with Satan if it weren't so.

If I posted some verses that has Jesus mentioning the word 'humble' then that makes Him somewhat different, right?

 

[look3467]

"If god did not exist it would be necessary to invent him."
Voltaire>>>mrgrumpy

Very true statement, but with reason. For internally, mankind has an element of God in them, and which drives them to seek.

Therefore, without any knowledge of who or what God is, mankind is left to invent one, or two or as many as mankind needs in order to satisfy that yearning.

God knew all that from the very first parents, after all is He not the creator?

He then at an appointed time called out Abram, later Abraham to begin what was an introduction to the world of just who He was.

Jesus then was the target point by which God was going to gift life, to all souls who ever broke the womb, commencing with the very first set of parents to when ever He decides to end it all, which according to the bible, His kingdom has no end.

Today, we have a complete gathering of books, called the bible, which by the way comes at the expense of the Jewish people, and identifies completely who God is.

If some of us don't see it because we see only mankind's distortion of it, then we are missing the greatest blessing anyone can have on this earth, and that is to experience Gods presence in our hearts while yet living in the flesh and on this earth.

Otherwise, you'll just have to wait till you die to see Him. By then, the joy of knowing Him in the flesh will be a loss.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[mrgrumpy]

Apparently, luckily it is variable and accurate for each situation. You wouldn't want to be the next in line right after He has been chatting with Satan if it weren't so.

If I posted some verses that has Jesus mentioning the word 'humble' then that makes Him somewhat different, right?

For gawd's sake lay off that cheap wine...

 

[look3467]

Dearest lookie lookie and megahertz:

Thank you for your spirited, although somewhat dense responses throughout this tiresome thread. Your endless quotations from the Book of Myths was largely unread/ignored - I was hoping for somewhat more personal responses, but if scriptural nonsense is the best you can come up with, so be it.

Seeing you are so fond of quotations to support the existence of this god of yours, I have one of my own for you:

" I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

Have a lovely, REAL day.

There is only one thing about that great statement, is that if I am wrong, I will miss out nothing, but if you are wrong, you will have missed out on everything Godly.

Quoting scripture is my foundation, therefore I stand on it Terra firma, tried and tested.

Peace be unto you my friend>>>AJ

 

[mrgrumpy]

"Otherwise, you'll just have to wait till you die to see Him. By then, the joy of knowing Him in the flesh will be a loss.

Peace>>>AJ"

The old immortality argument, eh?

Got any proof, besides the fables from the Book of Myths, that like all else of creation , we aren't anything but worm food?

All the wishful thinking inthe world notwithstanding?

 

[MHz]

Would you rather I switch over to your whine?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

There is only one thing about that great statement, is that if I am wrong, I will miss out nothing, but if you are wrong, you will have missed out on everything Godly.

Inevitably, Pascal's Wager shows up in discussions like these in some form if they go on long enough. If you're wrong AJ, you'll have missed a lot. Think of all the things you could have been doing instead of spending so much time and energy chasing what turned out to be a delusion.

 

[mrgrumpy]

"Quoting scripture is my foundation, therefore I stand on it Terra firma, tried and tested."

Poor fool.

Ignorant goat herders and mystics smoking dope don't account for crap thses days.

 

[look3467]

“we aren't anything but worm food”?>>> mrgrumpy

Under your view, tis true, but under mine, the creator went out of His way to give me worth.

My being made worthy under the circumstances I’m in, I treasure that with my whole heart, and give thanks continually, and the peace that surpasses all understanding, is mine to enjoy in light of a loving God.

That’s proof for me and something that you don’t have, otherwise, you’d know you are more than just a mere worm.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

"Quoting scripture is my foundation, therefore I stand on it Terra firma, tried and tested."

Poor fool.

Ignorant goat herders and mystics smoking dope don't account for crap thses days.

You would thunk that Jesus was a the greatest fool to even think that He should die in someones else's place, let alone the world.

If that makes me a fool for believing that, then yes, I am a poor fool, but the richest fool if you can understand what I mean.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Inevitably, Pascal's Wager shows up in discussions like these in some form if they go on long enough. If you're wrong AJ, you'll have missed a lot. Think of all the things you could have been doing instead of spending so much time and energy chasing what turned out to be a delusion.

Ok, that's fair.

How can a spiritual experience be not real when it has life changing qualities, especially when it comes from the inside rather than from the outside?

The world outside is what it is, but the inside of ones heart is where the beginning of change can affect the outside world.

Time and time again, are testimonials of peoples lives been changed because of heart conversions, because they found worth in themselves from a God who loves them just the way they are and giving them hope of a better world through life.

I understand mankind without God is worthless, but with God, life becomes worth living.

Hope, expectation and faith of a better place, knowing that this life is but temporary.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Dexter Sinister]

How can a spiritual experience be not real when it has life changing qualities, especially when it comes from the inside rather than from the outside?

I would not suggest, and have never suggested as far as I can recall, that spiritual experiences aren't real. Clearly something happens to people that they call spiritual experiences, and in fact I've had them myself. I would, however, suggest, that how people tend to interpret them has no evidential basis and no grounding in reality.

I understand mankind without God is worthless...

That's a fine example of what I consider to be an interpretation with no evidential basis and no grounding in reality.

 

[look3467]

I would not suggest, and have never suggested as far as I can recall, that spiritual experiences aren't real. Clearly something happens to people that they call spiritual experiences, and in fact I've had them myself. I would, however, suggest, that how people tend to interpret them has no evidential basis and no grounding in reality. That's a fine example of what I consider to be an interpretation with no evidential basis and no grounding in reality.

If then the experience changes the persons life for the better, say from any form of addiction, from anger, from greed and the such, I would tend to believe that something good is at work in that persons heart.

Call it what you want, but I call it God, and to me, that gives me hope of helping someone else to deal with their problems, by simply sharing with them the love of God.

The AA helpd out many folks better their lives, but still the work has to be first worked out in the persons heart.

peace>>>AJ

 

[talloola]

Ok, that's fair.

I understand mankind without God is worthless, but with God, life becomes worth living.

A.J., maybe that is how you feel about yourself, but do not apply that statement to me, as I am having
a great and full life, 'without' god, and my life is well worth living, so, I rather resent it,
that you include me in your above statement, it is thoughtless and cruel.

I do believe that I am a 'part' of mankind.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

If then the experience changes the persons life for the better, say from any form of addiction, from anger, from greed and the such, I would tend to believe that something good is at work in that persons heart.

Sure, I can buy that, though I'd like to see some numbers on how often it actually happens and has lasting effects. I just don't see either a need or a justification for attributing it to anything outside that person.

Call it what you want, but I call it God...

I do, and I don't call it god. Or God. I think the credit belongs entirely to the person who makes the change. Frankly, I agree with talloola. Your claim to understand that man without god is worthless is at best a little patronizing, at worst it's an arrogant and insulting comment on everybody who doesn't share your beliefs. You're perfectly entitled to think that anyone who doesn't share your beliefs is wrong, but "worthless" is a little over the top. I know you to be a kind, gentle, and well-meaning person so I didn't take it as an insult, but the truth is that you understand no such thing. You simply assume it, mostly on the basis of your rather idiosyncratic understanding of Scripture, and I think you're demonstrably wrong. Reason and evidence--or rather, the lack of evidence--tell me that the god you base all this on almost certainly does not exist.

 

[look3467]

Ok, that's fair.

I understand mankind without God is worthless, but with God, life becomes worth living.

A.J., maybe that is how you feel about yourself, but do not apply that statement to me, as I am having
a great and full life, 'without' god, and my life is well worth living, so, I rather resent it,
that you include me in your above statement, it is thoughtless and cruel.

I do believe that I am a 'part' of mankind.

I do apologize to you talloola, I should be careful to choose my words better.

You have every right to live a full and wonderful life without God.

My reference should have been to those who think that life is but a worm.

I Stand corrected.

Peace>>>AJ