Who Is Jesus?

[MikeyDB]

Lester

Oral traditions were all that existed before that printing press thing... and although it's difficult to imagine or synthesize into a more complete picture...many oral traditions weren't as focused on belief in the divine or worshiping god. Behaviors that could be controlled by implying or promising were used as social controls among tribal populations. It's unfortunate that the better elements of belief in the divine like compassion empathy and tolerance...forgiveness and respect became tools of social conditioning. The advantage of ascribing laws and rules to an omnipotent being was exactly the same mechanism used today by used-car salesmen... "I'd live to give you a break on this little beauty but just wait here and I'll go talk with the manager and see what I can do..."

Misdirecting the source of these notions onto an entity that couldn't be seen or felt but who had the future of life and all of the world in his power avoided the messy part of telling people that the laws and rules being made were to benefit the rich the powerful and the few who had an interest in controlling the situation.

As I've said, it's too bad that the generosity of spirit and availability to many of the good feelings and ideas in the spiritual concept of an ominipotent agent were sacrificed to the over-class.

 

[Lester]

Herald: Show me proof- do not threaten me with eternal damation because I do not subscribe to your beleifs, If there is a God, I don't think he wants me to be a brown nose.
I will live my life following MY own moral compass -do no harm -help in any way I can and be happy with and make the most of what life has given me- you can be spiritual without banging on the pulpit and raining down fire and brimstone.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

If you wait until He comes, you will be lost forever...

I doubt it. Your kind and loving god would condemn me forever for being unable to take the leap of faith? I know of no compelling reason to believe he's coming, that he was ever here, or that he even exists. I'm willing to take the chance that my own knowledge and reason and logic are more likely to give me the truth of things than your grandiose claims of being the herald of things to come and having healed the sick, cast out demons, and raised the dead. I'm with Doubting Thomas on this one, I think he should have been praised for demanding the evidence for an extraordinary claim instead of accepting hearsay and anecdote. St. Paul said it himself:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

 

[talloola]

I don't wait for anything in life, or live with hope, or suck up to anyone/anything with hopes of
being part of 'whatever' after I die.

My life is great on this earth, I have love, I give love, I enjoy, I contribute, I adore this
earth, but do wish everyone did the same, and did not abuse her.

When i die I will return to this earth, which is where I started in the first place, along with
everyone else.

I am comforta ble, and happy, and I don't wonder about anything outside this world, well, maybe I do wonder if there are others living on other planets, that would be exciting to know.

I hate using the 'I' word so much, going to give it a rest.

 

[herald]

Actually, those who are lost do not suffer, eternally, in hell. That is a pagan notion, that, first crept into Judaism and then into the Christian church. Those who are lost will be burned into ashes in the lake of fire, because they chose to remain in their sin and didn't choose to live with Him forever.

Why don't you ask the Lord Jesus Christ to reveal Himself to you and see what happens.

Many atheists, after having read the Scripture, became believers.

Knowing Jesus is to know eternal life.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Why don't you ask the Lord Jesus Christ to reveal Himself to you and see what happens.

I've tried that, many times before I became apostate, by myself and with the assistance and advice of Catholic and Anglican priests, and Baptist and Lutheran pastors, a Mormon bishop, parents, friends, and siblings. Nothing happened.

Many atheists, after having read the Scripture, became believers.

I doubt that the number's very big, but I went the other way. I grew up in a very religious household, and the more Scripture I read the more senseless, illogical, cruel, and just plain stupid the religious content seemed to be. You know what Scripture actually says about marriage, for instance? It's a union between one man and one or more women (Gen 29:18-28, II Sam 3:2-5), and marriage shall not impede a man's right to have multiple concubines as well (II Sam 5:13, I Kings 11:3, II Chron 11:21). Try that these days and see what happens to you. It's not even made clear in the New Testament whether those rules, and all the other foolish (and mostly illegal now) prescriptions for correct behaviour found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy--there are something over 600 of them--still apply or not. There are texts that support both positions.

I gave it up as a bad job, and I find atheism liberating.

 

[talloola]

I respect Dexter, that you took much time to deeply study different religions, and learn about many of them, although it does tell me that you had a bit of 'turmoil' for awhile
as to the direction you 'wanted' or 'should' go in life, in respect to religion.

I am thankful that I had 'no' turmoil at all, and I have no answer as to why that was, and
still is, but it saved me lots of research. Everything I feel just came from within me, and
I had no questions, ever. (even when I was a little girl in catholic school, and all the
masses and religious studies, I never asked questions, just listened and wondered), so, I guess the memory of that period of my life, settled it for me.

I've heard it all, from all the religious people on here, and in life, and they just sound like
any other salesmen that are trying to sell me something I don't believe in.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Thanks talloola, I very much appreciate your sensitivity and intelligence. It was a terrible struggle for me, one of the hardest things I've ever done, because of what I grew up with and the expectations of my parents, whom I loved dearly and miss every day. They didn't steer me wrong about much, but on this one I think they were wrong. My apostasy hurt all three of us pretty badly, but I could not be dishonest with them, I had to tell them what I thought when they asked, and they did. To their great credit, they never held it against me, they never stopped loving me and caring about me and supporting me, and they never stopped praying for me, but I know I made them very sad in some ways. I can never fix that, and that still hurts a bit, but honesty overrides it. I am apostate, I sometimes wish I weren't, it would be comforting to believe, and I've tried, gawd how I've tried, but I can't do it. It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[talloola]

Thanks talloola, I very much appreciate your sensitivity and intelligence. It was a terrible struggle for me, one of the hardest things I've ever done, because of what I grew up with and the expectations of my parents, whom I loved dearly and miss every day. They didn't steer me wrong about much, but on this one I think they were wrong. My apostasy hurt all three of us pretty badly, but I could not be dishonest with them, I had to tell them what I thought when they asked, and they did. To their great credit, they never held it against me, they never stopped loving me and caring about me and supporting me, and they never stopped praying for me, but I know I made them very sad in some ways. I can never fix that, and that still hurts a bit, but honesty overrides it. I am apostate, I sometimes wish I weren't, it would be comforting to believe, and I've tried, gawd how I've tried, but I can't do it. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Well, I see how it was very different between us, as teenagers/young adults, as my
parents, although they both seemed to believe in god, they also had their doubts, but my being one generation younger, felt more free with my opinion, and didn't mind being honest, but they would never have done that, wouldn't even have thought about doing it, it would have been 'out of the question'.But, they completely accepted my position, without feeling 'sad' for me. They were fine with it.
I can read and listen to believers talk till they are blue in the face, trying to convince
me and others, with all of their bible quotes, etc., and it makes about as much sense to me as
telling me that 'night is day', and, what really makes me chuckle and shake my head,
is that, they seem to feel sorry for us, and they don't realize that, I feel so relieved that I'm not like them, it's a very free feeling, and natural, and 'for me', it's what we should be.
You be happy as you are, as, from reading all of your posts, you are quite centered ,
obviously intelligent, and level headed, and the last thing you need in you life is
religion to clutter your mind, don't wish for that.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Wow talloola, I wish I knew you in real life. We'd get along fabulously, you'd love my wife, and we could have so many wonderful evenings around the fireplace with wine and cheese and stimulating conversation. It's people like you who keep me coming back here and who make the Internet so wonderful for someone like me. At least 80% of what's out there is crap, but there are some gems in it too, you're one of them, and it's worth wading through the crap to find them. Thanks for being interested and caring.

I think I love you... :smile: It's late at night in my time zone, I've been partying 'cause I don't have to work tomorrow, and I'm bulging with Chateau Sinister 2007 (I make my own wine), or I probably wouldn't be revealing this much of myself. In vino veritas...

 

[talloola]

Wow talloola, I wish I knew you in real life. We'd get along fabulously, you'd love my wife, and we could have so many wonderful evenings around the fireplace with wine and cheese and stimulating conversation. It's people like you who keep me coming back here and who make the Internet so wonderful for someone like me.

At least 80% of what's out there is crap, but there are some gems in it too, you're one of them, and it's worth wading through the crap to find them. Thanks for being interested and caring.

I think I love you... :smile: It's late at night in my time zone, I've been partying 'cause I don't have to work tomorrow, and I'm bulging with Chateau Sinister 2007 (I make my own wine), or I probably wouldn't be revealing this much of myself. In vino veritas...

Thank you, and you're welcome.
We made our own wine once, but we aren't drinkers at all,know nothing about wine,
(other than my husbands family are italians, and they all make and drink their
own wine), our wine lasted far too long, and we lost interest and didn't try again.

 

[look3467]

Ladies and gentlemen, it is my understanding God has delivered us all from eternal banishment to life in his son Jesus Christ.

Therefore, God has provided the means by which we may exercise our abilities to choose between right and wrong as our hearts dictate without the penalty of eternal banishment.

Prior to Jesus this was not an option. All souls who lived and died before his coming were held in a place awaiting his arrival. Religion has identified that place as Hell.

Jesus came for the express purpose of eliminating that place (hell) for us but did not to eliminate the playing field that is called Earth.

While on this earth, we must suffer the consequences of our own makings and the consequences of the times and chance that happens to all.

So what religion should do in effect is provide a vehicle by which love may be exercised. Unfortunately, because humanity is in the flesh and the flesh seeks its own fleshly desires, contrary to that which the spirit desire, mankind manufacturers its own beliefs and practices.

Many of these practices are contrary to the spiritual guidance in man, and because of that we have wars.

Don't get me wrong not all religions are bad for they provide a source for mankind to exercise and maintain good works. They provide a family atmosphere, a community of like-minded believers, of goal oriented visions and strength to endure the sufferings of this world.

If, any of you have gotten a bad taste of God in religion and have moved away from it, please don't blame the creator, but blame mankind for the misguidance.

Every one of us has within us a spark of the spirit of God in us whether we want to believe it or not.
That sparked is what gives all of us a moral standard by which each one of us understands it according to our own earthly experiences.

For those who don't believe in God but live a moral life, by doing things that are right, by not hurting his fellow human beings and our earth unjustly, have a religion unto themselves.

I say all this from a deep religious perspective, which only through an understanding of the Scriptures is this truth made known to me.

I do wish only to say that God is a loving God, and in no way should he be held to blame because he paid the price for our being brought into existence.

Therefore, whatever we do, whatever beliefs we have, whatever practices we practice whether good or evil, we are held accountable with payment due in the flesh.

After the flesh, after this life’s experience, whether good or evil, God has provided the means by which at our end or before, we shall recognize him as God and receive life were ever more.

That choice has been given us for free. Take it as you will.

Peace >>>AJ

 

[talloola]

Ladies and gentlemen, it is my understanding God has delivered us all from eternal banishment to life in his son Jesus Christ.

.
.That choice has been given us for free. Take it as you will.

Peace >>>AJ

Howdy, how come I'm not surprised you suddenly 'appeared', do you make your own
wine too?

 

[herald]

I am sorry, that, you have experienced religion. I am not talking about a Pope, pastor, priest, church...I am talking about the Lord Jesus Christ. He didn't have much use for religion, either.

Do you know why the Reformers were martyred? Because they studied Daniel and Revelation and pointed to the office of the Papacy as fulfilling the Scriptures on The Antichrist. Antichrist does not, only, mean "Against Christ," but, "False Christ."

The RCC has used kings and states down through it's history. Jesus never used the state to further the Kingdom of God. His warfare was spiritual.

The last Beast Kingdom in the Scripture, arises out of a sparsely populated place, has two horns without crowns - civil and religious liberty. It is "...like a Lamb" - a young Christian nation, but, speaks as a Dragon. Protestant America - "The greatest superpower the world has ever known."

The apostate Catholic/Protestant religious system is called the "Mother of harlots," in Revelation 17. The RCC will use Protestant America to tyrannize the world.

Have you heard of St. Malachy's prophesy? It is put on the web by the RCC.

He was an Irish Catholic Bishop who visited Rome in 1139 and had a vision of all the Popes, until, the time of the end. He gave details about many of the Popes. He said, that, the last Pope would reign amidst many tribulations, until, the judge came and destroyed the city. If this was a vision from God, there will be, only, one more Pope.

Jesus is coming back as a judge.

 

[look3467]

Well high again!I've been busy doing some other things and giving you guys a break. Every now and then I check to see which guys are up to.
So I thought I'd chime in and stirred things up a little bit. About wine, I don't make my own wine but, if you are speaking about spiritual wine then yes.

I can get high on spiritual wine, the type that touches the heart. Well that's all for now, however, I do want to come it on Herald Post.

Peace>>> AJ

 

[herald]

Dexter, what makes you think, that, you are apostate...look at those in the Scripture. They failed, often. Reach out to the Lord and seek His forgiveness. He is very willing to forgive.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Dexter, what makes you think, that, you are apostate..

Because the word means a person who's turned away from a position once held, which is what I did. I was raised religious, and I abandoned it because I found it useless and silly.

Reach out to the Lord and seek His forgiveness. He is very willing to forgive.

I don't believe anyone or anything's listening.

 

[herald]

Then, all you have is this life...

 

[Toro]

Who is Jesus?

He's about 50 pitchers in the winter leagues.

 

[L Gilbert]

Then, all you have is this life...

Um, yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah......... that's one of the points of atheism. We atheists are busy enjoying this life without fussing over and dreaming about a next life which will never come. Being faithful wastes as much life as sleeping does except sleeping has a better purpose; it keeps people from going wacko. All faith does is give people with two good legs a crutch with which to limp. (That's a metaphore ) Might as well believe Mother Goose will give you eternal life. Or a leprachaun. Or a faerie.