Dozens of Afghan civilians die in air raids: residents
- Thread starter JBeee
- Start date
For starters it removes the whole human shield element. If you knew I would rain death down upon you as a response to the attacks from your country would you sit around saying nothing while your neighbor builds bombs to attack me in his garage or would you call authorities to have him arrested?
Second, it removes the whole sanitised war aspect from the public. It's not pretty, there is no glory or heroics or bravery. No support the troops bull. Only death and distruction. In this way, our country sees exactly what has happened and we did it. There is no argument that some people deserved it while some didn't. We know everyone will be vaporized. Maybe that would get rid of our taste for war after war after war.
Like Japan after the Bomb. There was no waiting for a couple of weeks to surrender. That happened instantly. No more war. No one else wanted to have a go. No one else wanted to fight the fight in their country. All they could do was start proxy wars in other countries. Korea, VietNam, Afghanistan. Not an all out war, but a nice little war of using the little toys that can only wipe out a small area and a few people at a time. Loss a hundred or so here and a couple of hundred there a week and no one gets too upset after a while.
Kill off a few million in Iran on Wednesday and watch Bush or anyone else try and calm the people at home on Friday. He would be gone either by impeachment or someone would just up and shoot him. Either way, no more war unless it's absolutly positively unavoidable. And when it is, it's of biblical stature. Hell raining down from the sky with no where to run and no where to hide.
I think that if it means that millions of people will die, then maybe for bothsides, diplomacy will become much more difficult to just toss aside.
Break it down, if someone punched you in the nose and your only response was to blow up their house and kill everyone in it as well as the people who lived in the houses next to it, would you hit them back, or just walk away?
I'd probably just make a point of staying out of his garage.
which parallel universe is THAT question coming from?8O
So what? Civilians died in WWII and, like Afghanistan, that was also a justified war.
In war, civilians ALWAYS die. Can anyone name a war in history in which civilians didn't die? Civilians died even in the Cold War.
Some people can't grasp this, and think that it is possible for armies to go to war but for no civilians to be killed.
In war, civilians ALWAYS die. Can anyone name a war in history in which civilians didn't die? Civilians died even in the Cold War.
Some people can't grasp this, and think that it is possible for armies to go to war but for no civilians to be killed.
Even if it was very clear that you don't have to be in his garage, but within say ten miles of his garage?
The point about deterrent is still valid. The feeling that we're not really doing anything terribly bad is also the reason why it is easy enough to come up with a couple of lies, mixed in with a lot of truth to make reasonable people do something terribly unreasonable.
Even now that Iraq is a huge problem, there is only a token outcry to stop the war and precious little about foreign policy that is still enacted each day on our behalf by the governments we elect.
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You still haven't answered this BW? Stop weaseling and just answer it?
I'll answer your counter question: Yes I would be willing to be bombed if my town was the one overrun by neo-nazi's. Not being a coward, I would rather this ended here rather than cause more people to die overall. So yes, bomb my village if thats what needs to be done to ensure that owning a gun does not mean you get to run rampant and murder people as your own little god.
So answer my question and quit trying to lie and weasel your way out of it.
charming :roll:
and full of **** too. I can smell your pants loading from here.
Barring circumstances that have not been described in the opening article, no, I wouldn't want my town to be bombed (as if that's what you asked). The human spirit is more enduring than that. I'd rather my children have a chance in the future than sign their death warrant now.
and full of **** too. I can smell your pants loading from here.
Barring circumstances that have not been described in the opening article, no, I wouldn't want my town to be bombed (as if that's what you asked). The human spirit is more enduring than that. I'd rather my children have a chance in the future than sign their death warrant now.
And yet, thats not what I asked, thats what you asked.
So answer my question, I quoted it for you.
Hint, its yes or no:
As for my answer, no, no bull****. Not everyone puts living like some kind of worm, preparing to let others die so you can squeek out another day or two of misery. I don't have any pretentions that if I cower long enough and let others suffer long enough I'll be immortal. Im going to die anyways, I'd prefer not to be used as a pawn that gets others killed or worse.
So answer my question, I quoted it for you.
Hint, its yes or no:
As for my answer, no, no bull****. Not everyone puts living like some kind of worm, preparing to let others die so you can squeek out another day or two of misery. I don't have any pretentions that if I cower long enough and let others suffer long enough I'll be immortal. Im going to die anyways, I'd prefer not to be used as a pawn that gets others killed or worse.
That?
If its not about bombing then its irrelevant to the topic, which makes you the weasel.
If its not about bombing then its irrelevant to the topic, which makes you the weasel.
that's sounds real heroic and stuff but...
see...
unlike you...
I don't live in a village of one.
it wasn't. check your grammar.
Deterrents don't do squat. During the Cold War the geniuses on all sides of the tensions always found some way or another to play their games under the redline.
Its not irrelevant. That is the topic. That is the topic right there. What do you think happens when police raid a place with guns blazing, hint, bystanders die. You want a link to thirty thousand different instances over the years?
So its exactly the same, answer the question and stop weaseling your way out of it. Grow up and act like an adult in debate, your not 4, this isn't whine, cheat and lie. This is a forum to discuss the issue. You accuse me of rationalizing the deaths of people caught in the bombing to view it as acceptable. I state that you are rationalizing Afghanistani's as lesser than Canadians by calling them "Foreign" and believing you have less of a duty to help them out then help your own neighbours out. To that extent I ask if the same circumstances were happening in Canada, requiring the same response, If you would react the same or not. A specific example below:
Here, i'll ammend it:
*If the same problem was going on In Canada, a band of Aryan Nation Vigilantes taking over towns and dispensing their own version of justice at gunpoint. Would you say we should just back away and leave Canadian Citizens to fend for themselves? Note that this will require armed intervention and bombs and bullets in the ensuing struggle will kill innocent civilians caught in the crossfire and police aren't willing to go on suicide runs by not softening up the area before they move in*
Now, answer the question, yes or no.
Apparently though, you live in a nation of one village, which is my point. IF you don't have to see people on your daily commute, you don't care if they live or die. apparently from your response, you don't care if keeping "your village" from being involved in the frontline gets 10 other villages maimed. I tend to care about people even If I don't have to stand in line with them at the checkout.
PS: I'd still like to hear an actual answer to my question, even though you have already stated you don't think anyone outside your immediate area is a real human being.
Did. You then make a moral judgement that is wrong and that I am rationalizing it.
I am calling you on this, I am asking if you think this would be wrong if it was Canadians involved in the same circumstances, and asking if you are rationalizing Afghanistani Civilians as different thant Canadian ones.
Now answer the question. You are awful scared of it though aren't you? Scared of having to live up to something you say?
Just answer the question, you could have done it 6 times by now, instead you expend great effort to avoid having to stand behind something you say.
Please answer the question, seriously.
I am calling you on this, I am asking if you think this would be wrong if it was Canadians involved in the same circumstances, and asking if you are rationalizing Afghanistani Civilians as different thant Canadian ones.
Now answer the question. You are awful scared of it though aren't you? Scared of having to live up to something you say?
Just answer the question, you could have done it 6 times by now, instead you expend great effort to avoid having to stand behind something you say.
Please answer the question, seriously.
now you say please?
get counseling.
the answer, since you can't avoid making things personal, is that I'm not some pacifist idealist so take it from there but that still has nothing to do with whether the Afghan coalition is properly distinguishing between means available and means necessary.
get counseling.
the answer, since you can't avoid making things personal, is that I'm not some pacifist idealist so take it from there but that still has nothing to do with whether the Afghan coalition is properly distinguishing between means available and means necessary.
And that is not what you were arguing before. In fact, I believe I stated many times that one needs to sit down and with cool head decide is things are being done correctly, not go off half cocked based on emotion.
You responded that one should go off based on emotion, and then decided to accuse me of rationalizing murder.
Now I can quote all your responses if you want, but no matter how politely someone says something, you throw a hissy fit and resort to personal insults, the first few pages are there for your viewing pleasure. Read back over it.
You responded that one should go off based on emotion, and then decided to accuse me of rationalizing murder.
Now I can quote all your responses if you want, but no matter how politely someone says something, you throw a hissy fit and resort to personal insults, the first few pages are there for your viewing pleasure. Read back over it.