Human lusts', why does it work against us?

[look3467]

What is it about the flesh that craves all earthly things?
I mean if the food is good, we over eat.
If the beer makes us feel good, we over drink.
If power gives us a high, why do we abuse it?
If money buys us many things, we over spend.
If we have a wife, why do we look as if we had none?
Why if sex is good, yet it can kill.
If we desire something we can't afford, do we steal?
If humanity is so good, why is there wars?
What makes us mean and vain?
Apart from a short journey in this life, what else is there?
Is this it? I mean, born to die?
If we did good to some one, what reward is there?
Why not just rule with an iron fist until all our days are up, for after this, what?
Why struggle in life is this is all there is?
Why not get on top of all and rule with all the riches we can steal from the poor?
Why think about tomorrow when tomorrow many end suddenly?

Conclusion is, is that life without God is absolutely hopeless!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[karrie]

A religous viewpoint isn't the only one that can be reached.

One of natural selection can also explain much of the lustful, hoarding behavior you describe. By having the most stuff, eating the most food, weilding the most power, we ensure that our tribe or family is successful, healthy, and has a reproductive edge.

 

[Curiosity]

look3467

AJ - I could write a huge post on obsessive, permissive, destructive, and habitual behavior learned and practiced, but you prefer to view it as something which must be 'cured' by having a life through religious belief.

You are dabbling in science vs. religion and while your musings are 'amusing'... you continue to restrict yourself in seeking causative behavior while declaring only one cure and lifestyle is possible.

Does this mean those people who lead righteous lives without giving into compulsions or 'lusts' are necessarily believers in God? I think you are in for a disappointment. And an alternative thought.

I can give many examples of reasons why some humans become devout believers in and practitioners of religion - who are as compulsive and lustful as the 'sinners' you describe here. Where is their God? On vacation?

One Simple Example: In modern times, how often do we read and hear about leaders of religious groups having extremely difficult times with their personal sexuality? One cannot hide within religious belief to overcome human frailties - it just doesn't work. They can be masked temporarily only to express themselves in other behavior.

Magical thinking - pleasant on a sunny day - but not realistic.

 

[look3467]

A religous viewpoint isn't the only one that can be reached.

One of natural selection can also explain much of the lustful, hoarding behavior you describe. By having the most stuff, eating the most food, wielding the most power, we ensure that our tribe or family is successful, healthy, and has a reproductive edge.

In the animalistic world, yes, I agree with you, but we are of the same flesh with the same desires except for he intelligence part, which sets us apart.

The intelligence part is the ability to know what is good from what is evil.

Animals are programed to survive and which know to do no evil or good.

Therefore, there must be a spirit of intelligences gifted to humans as though gods of their own lives.

This spirit recognizes an intelligences above and superior to it's self, thus, must be a god.

Over all humanity, this god has been unknown, therefore, leaving it's design to mankind's thinking.

Until, a predetermined time, was this God made known to mankind via Abraham.

Abraham, being a picture of the prophesied Messiah of humanity's salvation, for all ages past, present and future.

The work was begun and completed by God Himself with mankind's participation.

If this constitutes a religious belief, then that is what it is, but looking at it from the top down, and not from the bottom up.

This God, of whom reveled by the Jewish writers, is basically, the God of the Jews for all humanity.

A chosen people to be the revelator of designed truth, as spoken by the prophets and finally, by God Himself in the flesh as Jesus, as the finally word and redeemer of all mankind.

What form in religious belief that takes, makes no difference, in that the core message delivered by Jesus as the Son of God is love.

So after Jesus, if love is not exercised, the image of God is not seen in us.

"Let us make man after our own image" is to demonstrate what God is like in love.

It is a tough world to deal with, without the peace of God in us.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

You are dabbling in science vs. religion and while your musings are 'amusing'... you continue to restrict yourself in seeking causative behavior while declaring only one cure and lifestyle is possible.>>> Curiosity

Quite the opposite, I used to think that way before, but not now.
There is absolutely no contradiction between science and belief in God.
Behavior is a cause of the flesh and dealt strictly in the flesh, but to overcome the fleshly behavior requires a higher standard of which this world can not provide.
It is a spiritual thing and not of this world.

Does this mean those people who lead righteous lives without giving into compulsions or 'lusts' are necessarily believers in God? I think you are in for a disappointment. And an alternative thought.>>> Curiosity

Righteous life: by whose standards? What prevents the flesh from doing what it naturally desires? Is it not the spirit in mankind? And if so, of what spirit is it?

I can give many examples of reasons why some humans become devout believers in and practitioners of religion - who are as compulsive and lustful as the 'sinners' you describe here. Where is their God? On vacation?>>> Curiosity

God, as defined by mankind is conditioned by the standards placed on that god. Therefore, if those conditions are not met in practice, than there is failure and judgments. Hence: and eye for an eye, tooth for tooth.

But, as God reveled Himself in Jesus and taking away the fleshly power of lusts, gave us release from it in Jesus.
In Jesus we now have the power to overcome the lusts of the flesh as a matter of choice.

One Simple Example: In modern times, how often do we read and hear about leaders of religious groups having extremely difficult times with their personal sexuality? One cannot hide within religious belief to overcome human frailties - it just doesn't work. They can be masked temporarily only to express themselves in other behavior.>>> Curiosity

That only goes to show the human weakness, that apart from God, there is no overcoming.
Acceptance of our designed fleshly lusts as a field of trial, and understanding that it can only be won out on a spiritual level, is the beginning of spiritual growth.

Magical thinking - pleasant on a sunny day - but not realistic.>>> Curiosity

What is realistic is what God does in our lives. What is not is what we think He should do!

I.e. why does God allow suffering, or why does God permit wars, or why does God not just come down and straighten everything out?
If truly there is a god?

As I mentioned before about you, you have the love of God in you and recognize it only as you see it, in your own way, which makes it, acceptable in my eyes.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Curiosity]

Look3467

Well said - however I disagree. Often humans are the victims of behaviors which are not of their making but of some inner workings of their brain or body chemistry. To a religious person they may present as 'lusts' but are you trained to comprehend the inner machinations of the human being?

To ask them to follow religious dogma rather than getting professional assistance would be an errand which would only delay the relief they should be able to expect - on a successful level - from worldly science.

Surely your God doesn't negate scientific success ? I know for a fact a human can overcome many things through self esteem and worth building - whether they incorporate religious belief into their journey or not is irrelevant.

On the other hand I loathe people in religious lives who have ruined others through the power in the church, destroying or delaying what could be a healthy human.

 

[Vereya]

I am quite aware that I am starting to repeat myself, but I will once again say, that coping with your "lusts" as you call them, Look, is a matter of keeping your emotions under control. Lusts - overeating when the food is good, drinking too much, promiscuous behaviour and all that kind of thing - they are emotional things. Something makes you feel good, your emotions soar, and you want more and more and more, and finally you loose all control, and can even ruin your health, or your life, or important relationships with important people. This happens when your emotions out-weigh your consciousness, or awareness, as I like to call it. But if you "give an upper hand" to awareness, you will plainly see the consequences of indulging your desires, and then you can rationally decide, whether you can safely afford to indulge them right now, in a certain particular situation, or not. And I agree with Curiousity on this point - it is not a matter of religion, it is a matter of rationally thinking an thing over before doing it, and then making the right choice.

 

[look3467]

Well said - however I disagree. Often humans are the victims of behaviors which are not of their making but of some inner workings of their brain or body chemistry. To a religious person they may present as 'lusts' but are you trained to comprehend the inner machinations of the human being?>>> Curiosity

I fully understand your point.
God is an option of which if we are able, may benefit from it. To my understanding, God is knowledgeable of all human conditions and knows to deal accordingly in compassion.

To ask them to follow religious dogma rather than getting professional assistance would be an errand which would only delay the relief they should be able to expect - on a successful level - from worldly science.>>> Curiosity

Medical attention is also a gift from God; I won’t deny anyone from it.

Surely your God doesn't negate scientific success? I know for a fact a human can overcome many things through self esteem and worth building - whether they incorporate religious belief into their journey or not is irrelevant.>>> Curiosity

All scientific knowledge is a gift from God to mankind debited out according to His planned desire.
And true, humans can over come many obstacles without knowingly acknowledging God, but I’d say God is in them anyways.

On the other hand I loathe people in religious lives who have ruined others through the power in the church, destroying or delaying what could be a healthy human.>>>

Everybody is accountable to themselves unless they are not mentally able, including all who would trust in mankind rather than God.

Unfortunately, all televangelist are not God, therefore are susceptible to failure as we all are.
The good news is that God loves us all regardless of our understanding of Him, and gives us every right to reject Him if we want.

By acknowledging Him, has with it many blessings in a world filled with despair, sufferings and evil people.
Knowing God does in no way give us a right to make any judgments.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Curiosity]

Look 3467

Strange you should remark about 'religious' being televangelists.

That is only a small percentage of people who declare themselves as representatives of God and that God is the only way a human can function in a healthy way in our world.

My remark was made about anyone of any church or belief system who interferes with a human receiving assistance with lust or whatever craving is destroying that human's life - rather than
directing the human towards science for help without a mandate it must be through God.

You have a selective process when you say God is the only way. Far too many souls do not believe in God, therefore you posit only 'the Godly' shall expect to receive assistance in our world -

What about the non-believers? Are they thrown in the garbage or damned or what in your little closed-off world?

If a human has life - that is enough to save - not whether then believe in your God or not.

 

[look3467]

I am quite aware that I am starting to repeat myself, but I will once again say, that coping with your "lusts" as you call them, Look, is a matter of keeping your emotions under control.>>> Vereya

I agree! But what constitutes the standard by which these behaviors’ can be out-weighed?
Where does that come from if not from another source other than the flesh?
When it is said that people have no conscience, does that mean they don’t have a standard by which they can govern themselves?

Lusts - overeating when the food is good, drinking too much, promiscuous behavior and all that kind of thing - they are emotional things. Something makes you feel good, your emotions soar, and you want more and more and more, and finally you loose all control, and can even ruin your health, or your life, or important relationships with important people. This happens when your emotions out-weigh your consciousness, or awareness, as I like to call it. But if you "give an upper hand" to awareness, you will plainly see the consequences of indulging your desires, and then you can rationally decide, whether you can safely afford to indulge them right now, in a certain particular situation, or not. And I agree with Curiousity on this point - it is not a matter of religion, it is a matter of rationally thinking an thing over before doing it, and then making the right choice>>> Vereya

Before any rational decisions can be made, there must first be a standard to compare it with.

Hence the knowledge tree of good and evil, which is the conscience, unless it is seared from all good, then there, is no conciseness for bad behavior.

I believe God is a standard by which we are guided in our daily living. If we listen to our conscience, good is the only good that will come from it, but if we don’t, then we are left to the fleshly desires.

I am not saying that it is mandatory to know God, but it helps in many ways.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Strange you should remark about 'religious' being televangelists.>>>Curiosity

Only Mentioned them simply because they are the brunt of all religious criticisms.

That is only a small percentage of people who declare themselves as representatives of God and that God is the only way a human can function in a healthy way in our world.>>>Curiosity

A matter of opinion only.

My remark was made about anyone of any church or belief system who interferes with a human receiving assistance with lust or whatever craving is destroying that human's life - rather than
directing the human towards science for help without a mandate it must be through God.>>>Curiosity

As a believer in God, I feel all help spiritually comes from Him, and all for my benefit.
For belief in God is not to our destruction, but for our ability to cope with life’s problems.
Medical and the sciences are all Gods gift to mankind and are to be utilized as needed.

You have a selective process when you say God is the only way. Far too many souls do not believe in God, therefore you posit only 'the Godly' shall expect to receive assistance in our world ->>>Curiosity

Selected process is as mankind sees it, but not as God sees it, in my opinion.
God does not limit Himself to mankind’s thinking but is open top all who may consider Him in which ever way they deem as their god.

What about the non-believers? Are they thrown in the garbage or damned or what in your little closed-off world?>>>Curiosity

I am surprised to read in the sentence above that as long as you’ve know me by my writings, that you have not yet seen that I am not close minded.

I am a friend to all even though I profess belief in the Christ.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Vereya]

Before any rational decisions can be made, there must first be a standard to compare it with.

Think of the consequences of your actions. That's your standard. Think what is more important - some swift positive emotion your get from doing something, or the course that your life is going to take after that. be your own friend - do the things that will do you good, and don't do things that will harm you. Just like that.

 

[look3467]

Think of the consequences of your actions. That's your standard. Think what is more important - some swift positive emotion your get from doing something, or the course that your life is going to take after that. be your own friend - do the things that will do you good, and don't do things that will harm you. Just like that.>>>Vereya

Good advice.

All that and leave God out of it: If it were so easy to dispel God out of life, than mankind has been fighting wars needlessly.

For wars are fought because of differences of religious beliefs.

Only states that there must be something to this thing called God in the human experience, wouldn’t you think?

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Was it William Blake that brought up the fact that rules about desire are usually designed by people of little or no desire.

I think the upper classes have all the fun and the lower and middle classes all the guilt.

 

[look3467]

Was it William Blake that brought up the fact that rules about desire are usually designed by people of little or no desire?

I think the upper classes have all the fun and the lower and middle classes all the guilt.

Desire is inherent in all intelligent flesh as a human trait, I believe, because it requires that these desires be managed for the good rather than for the selfish purposes.

The word “I” is a selfish fleshly inherent trait that tries to rule as it’s own god.

A god, as I define it is as an individual soul with powers of choice, both knowing the difference between good and evil.

Jesus said, “Don’t you know ye are as gods?”.

As for the upper class, well that has to do with “lording over” feature of the desires of the flesh.
The lower class, the servants are as necessary to the upper class and visa versa.

The point to be made in this entire quagmire is to learn management of the desires of the flesh to a point where good is preferred over evil as a god status.

Now, God plays a key part in all this since it’s His creation, but God has given mankind a choice to reject Him if so mankind desires.

But He also states, that if that is the case, He will leave them up to the world to take care of them.
And if you have any clue on how kind the world is to humanity, I dare say, you would choose not to be left to the world.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Minority Observer84]

Conclusion is, is that life without God is absolutely hopeless!

Peace>>>AJ

LOL too Funny . I could respond to your chirstolunacy with logic but i know very well that logic is lost on you AJ . So I'll just sum up by saying that life spent bending your knee to something that rational and logically cannot exist is worse than hopeless it's wasted .

 

[look3467]

LOL too Funny . I could respond to your chirstolunacy with logic but i know very well that logic is lost on you AJ . So I'll just sum up by saying that life spent bending your knee to something that rational and logically cannot exist is worse than hopeless it's wasted .>>>

Minority Observer84

If common sense defines logic, then it only makes sense that there is a God who rules the universe based on what I see as a masterfully designed, controlled , methodical driven universe, and of which I am a part of the designed feature of this whole process with one clear understanding; and that is that my worth was so great that this God of whom I worship loved me so, that He was, is willing to forgive me of all my trespasses while on duty here on earth.

Common sense tells me that all earthly things remain after my tour is up and I revert to a body of dirt, but my soul lives on because of my God’s redeeming love for me.

Common sense tells me, it is better to go with a possibility of God being God, than with no possibility, for what would I have to loose if God did not exist?

But what if He does exist, and live with that belief, then faith guides my every move, and reap the benefits of all that is awarded me by faith in God while I yet live.

While on the opposite side, common sense tells me that I only have what’s available on this earth for my souls comfort.

Look at humanity throughout all the ages, the wars, the plagues and all the in-humanities, the conditions of existence, and see if you can find solace there?

Would there not be a desire to seek a better place? Why so? Is it because this place is heavenly?

Logic my friend is good for defining purposes, but not one to place one’s faith in, for logic is totally a human thing, but faith is Godly thing which overcomes all that I have said about this world and the universe.

To use a worldly term: “There is no way in hell”, that I would pick humanistic thinking over Godly thinking as a better pick, for than I would consider myself a great fool.

I can tell you right now, I ain’t no fool.

If a road map is made available in order to go from point “A” to point “B” and I choose not to use it, then I am left to my own discretion of who to get there.
Some paths may not be so rosy a path, but oh well, that’s life.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Minority Observer84]

If common sense defines logic, then it only makes sense that there is a God who rules the universe based on what I see as a masterfully designed, controlled , methodical driven universe

Common sense is logic , and both of them have to be based on a substantial parallel experience or a known fact .

Common sense tells me that all earthly things remain after my tour is up and I revert to a body of dirt, but my soul lives on because of my God’s redeeming love for me.
Common sense tells me, it is better to go with a possibility of God being God, than with no possibility, for what would I have to loose if God did not exist?

Errrr Remember what i said about being factually based Ie Common sense does not tell you anything unless it's based something substantial .
As For the idea of what you'd have to lose , that concept is known in philosophy as pascals wager and it's refuted because through the history of man kind there have been thousands of different gods assuming one of them is the true creator you chances of getting the right one are neglible .

But what if He does exist, and live with that belief, then faith guides my every move, and reap the benefits of all that is awarded me by faith in God while I yet live.

And what if the pixie fairy exists and demands a fruit basket tithe every forth night ? To base faith on nothing is to open ones mind to all sorts of rubbish if you believe in something for no reason then logically you cannot disbelieve in anything .

While on the opposite side, common sense tells me that I only have what’s available on this earth for my souls comfort.
Look at humanity throughout all the ages, the wars, the plagues and all the in-humanities, the conditions of existence, and see if you can find solace there?
Would there not be a desire to seek a better place? Why so? Is it because this place is heavenly?

I see the world is not a nice place so instead of trying to work to make it better how about we just believe in an afterlife where all our problems are magically fixed . This sort of thinking is not only destructive and irrational it's all escapist and weak .

Logic my friend is good for defining purposes, but not one to place one’s faith in, for logic is totally a human thing, but faith is Godly thing which overcomes all that I have said about this world and the universe.

Faith is a human thing as well , faith existed long before anyone worship the monotheistic god of Moses/Jesus/Mohamed .Faith is not irrational provided it is based on a cohesive fact or reasoning method .

 

[look3467]

Common sense is logic , and both of them have to be based on a substantial parallel experience or a known fact .>>> Minority Observer84

Faith (in God) is what is lacking in the experience. And faith is not a fact that is provable as a known fact.

I experience faith in a God of the universe as given to understand based on all the experiences of past departed souls and the written words as inspired by God.

True, I can prove none of it by fact, but by faith, I can say volumes.

I can tell you that I have arrived at a point of understanding which prior to that, I had no reservations to those who believed not in Christ.

But now, I have new understanding which is all inclusive of all beliefs and or non beliefs as being included in the salvation plan of the creator.

I need no scientific proof of it, but by faith accept it as gospel truth.

Science is a beautiful thing to study and learn and in which neatly fits into Gods wonderful designs.

Errrr Remember what i said about being factually based Ie Common sense does not tell you anything unless it's based something substantial .
As For the idea of what you'd have to lose , that concept is known in philosophy as pascals wager and it's refuted because through the history of man kind there have been thousands of different gods assuming one of them is the true creator you chances of getting the right one are negligible .>>>Minority Observer84

…”the history of man kind there have been thousands of different gods…”has for it proof that mankind sought after something intangible and spiritual.

But can you agree that religion has evolved to it’s present state as a more mature belief?

Not quite all there yet since we still have wars in the name of religion.

And what if the pixie fairy exists and demands a fruit basket tithe every forth night? To base faith on nothing is to open ones mind to all sorts of rubbish if you believe in something for no reason then logically you cannot disbelieve in anything.>>>
Minority Observer84

This “pixie fairy” of which you speak lightly of, fulfilled all the demands requested by God of the flesh for compliance to live for ever, which includes all non-believers.

And true, if one is not grounded on some solid ground, the mind become a glutton for all kinds of beliefs.

I have a firm foundation on my beliefs.

I see the world is not a nice place so instead of trying to work to make it better how about we just believe in an afterlife where all our problems are magically fixed. This sort of thinking is not only destructive and irrational it's all escapist and weak. >>>
Minority Observer84

The whole point of being in this world is to learn in the midst of all confusion to do the right thing.
Conscience than becomes our guide which we are capable of loosing to no conscience, if we are so inclined.
People, religious and non-religious have the same ability to do good by their conscience.

It happens that religion promotes the good of the conscience.

Faith is a human thing as well, faith existed long before anyone worship the monotheistic god of Moses/Jesus/Mohamed .Faith is not irrational provided it is based on a cohesive fact or reasoning method. >>>
Minority Observer84

“…Faith is not irrational provided it is based on a cohesive fact or reasoning method…”

Well, than faith would not be faith for it requires trust in something intangible.

If I could scientifically prove the existence of God, then you would need no faith.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Desire is inherent in all intelligent flesh as a human trait, I believe, because it requires that these desires be managed for the good rather than for the selfish purposes.


Peace>>>AJ

Lets first play with this. Desire is inherant? hmmmm...so it exists on it's own. It's completely independant of other factors...It is inherant...Hogwarsh ..i say ...
How is anything inherant. All depend on other factors.Everything in existance is a coarising coexistant attribute of existance.

show me where it is inherant....nothing is inherant.


and who pray tell is worthy of telling me how to "manage my desires for the good"......today right now in the living!!!!


the road to heaven is paved with excess ...Willy babes again...