Leftists Condemn Chavez Shutting TV Station

[jimmoyer]

McElwee acknowledged the critics' point that some form of due process should have been involved in the decisions, but explained that laws preexisting Chávez's presidency placed licensing decision with the executive branch, with no real provisions for a hearings process: "Unfortunately, this is what the law, first enacted in 1987, long before Chávez entered the political scene, allows. It charges the executive branch with decisions about license renewal, but does not seem to require any administrative hearing. The law should be changed,...

----------------------------posting of part of same article earlier in this thread--------------

Chavez is absolved by pre-existing law, but every executive is always beseiged by questions of due process. It would be urged that he consider a populist due process approach AFTER this storm dissipates.

At least Chavez should be urged to consider hearings so that administrative decision gathers the proper critical mass to support the final decision.

Final point. The Media Echo Chamber.

How many newspapers do we have ? It seems only one does very little digging, very little investigation and then 500 other newspapers echo it.

Cheaper and easier that way, isn't it ?

Interesting post, Belldandy. What's your take on the above ?

 

[iARTthere4iam]

This just shows the importance of due process. Having this kind of power wielded by the executive brance without investigations is dangerous. If there was a review process an apeal process or any process whatsoever there would be more justification to the refusal to renew the licence. I don't think Chavez is likely to give up such a powerful tool (control of media) and in a very short time we will see that all (licenced) broadcasters are miraculously pro-Chavez.

 

[Belldandy]

Great posts! Let's see if I can make justice to them and explain myself ;-)

I agree in a certain degree about the hearings and the investigations BUT the problem is that the system doesn't work here. The whole system is pro-Chavez because he fired almost all government employees that weren't "with the process".

I guess you all know about the revocatory that took place here, one day we signed in designated points if we wanted a revocatory against Chavez, then we presented those signatures to the corresponding authorities and we had a referendum that Chavez won. After that, that list with all the names was released in CDs, Internet, DVDs and everyone had it (Tascon List) and all the people in that list with important jobs in the government was fired! :angryfire: My mom was one of those thousands of people and a lot of PDVSA personal is now in Alberta because they were fired as well.

In fact, the hate war continues until this day... My father works with the UCV and they have projects with PDVSA, well, he is the coordinator of those projects and he can't have people in the project that is in that list :angry3: And although he is in that list and we don't know how he has a job with them, he has to be very careful when he speaks about Chavez.

So in conclusion, you can't expect a fair treatment from the government.

About he recapacitating about his decision, lets put it this way, he said this things: "I'm closing RCTV because I said so and because I want to" and he said to Lula (Brasil's president) "There is more chance that Portugal reconquers your country than me allowing RCTV back" :angryfire:

In this case, what do you think?

 

[s243a]

Hello Belldandy,
Nice to meat you. I work with someone that left Venezualians that moved here because she and her husband were fiered because of that list. I live in Calagary and had realized that there are a lot of Venezualians here.

 

[s243a]

Fascist dictator, and good friend of Bush, Musharraf suppresses Pakistani news media:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070604/wl_afp/pakistanjusticemedia_070604165312


quote:

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf handed the country's television and radio watchdog greater powers Monday amid protests against the alleged blocking of three news channels ... Information Minister Muhammad Ali Durrani, who last week warned the media to tone down its coverage of the crisis, was not available for comment ...


Where are the howls of protest from the right wingers??:angryfire:

Now come on Gofer. I don't know enough about the situation in Pakastain to know if it is comparable but what I do know is you don't see right wingers on this board jumping over each other to defend this decision. People on the right recognize Pakastan for what it is. That is an important allie. I have not seen one right winger build the Primiminister of Pakastain up anywhere near as much as I have seen the left worship their false hero Chavez. You are clearly showing your partisan bias.

 

[Scott Free]

The media are misleading us about Chavez. They have lied before and can't be trusted. Try reading The Best Democracy Money Can Buy by Greg Palast, or Failed States by Noam Chomsky, and you'll see our media is less than reputable on these matters.

They feed off of peoples need to condemn each other. "Oh my! Look at them - what they are doing! Surely we are better than them!" Not so, in the light of reality.

 

[Scott Free]

Great posts! Let's see if I can make justice to them and explain myself ;-)

I agree in a certain degree about the hearings and the investigations BUT the problem is that the system doesn't work here. The whole system is pro-Chavez because he fired almost all government employees that weren't "with the process".

I guess you all know about the revocatory that took place here, one day we signed in designated points if we wanted a revocatory against Chavez, then we presented those signatures to the corresponding authorities and we had a referendum that Chavez won. After that, that list with all the names was released in CDs, Internet, DVDs and everyone had it (Tascon List) and all the people in that list with important jobs in the government was fired! :angryfire: My mom was one of those thousands of people and a lot of PDVSA personal is now in Alberta because they were fired as well.

What did you expect would happen? Even in Canada people loose their jobs or get shuffled around when there is a new government. How much more so if they decided to go shooting their mouths off. I am sympathetic but - HELLO - there is a certain reality called cause and effect.

In fact, the hate war continues until this day... My father works with the UCV and they have projects with PDVSA, well, he is the coordinator of those projects and he can't have people in the project that is in that list :angry3: And although he is in that list and we don't know how he has a job with them, he has to be very careful when he speaks about Chavez.

So in conclusion, you can't expect a fair treatment from the government.

Or any government for that matter when you're a high ranking bureaucrat and want to talk smack about the countries leader. You're in Canada so obviously you were well off there. I don't think Chavez is all that liked by the wealthy just the majority.

About he recapacitating about his decision, lets put it this way, he said this things: "I'm closing RCTV because I said so and because I want to" and he said to Lula (Brasil's president) "There is more chance that Portugal reconquers your country than me allowing RCTV back" :angryfire:

In this case, what do you think?

Isn't it his right as the elected leader? I don't see aljazeera being broadcast in the USA or Canada? And why not? Could it be because they say and show things that go counter to our governments agenda? I think yes. Yet Chavez is expected to be better than that - than us? Why?

 

[gopher]

Now come on Gofer. I don't know enough about the situation in Pakastain to know if it is comparable but what I do know is you don't see right wingers on this board jumping over each other to defend this decision. People on the right recognize Pakastan for what it is. That is an important allie. I have not seen one right winger build the Primiminister of Pakastain up anywhere near as much as I have seen the left worship their false hero Chavez. You are clearly showing your partisan bias.

Geez, what a cop out.

Musharraf is a dictator who won his position in a coup by kickig out a democratically elected president. He pardon Dr Khan who spread nuclear technology to Libya and North Korea, threatened India with nukes, and has done nothing to suppress the presence of Sunni extremism in parts of his country. All of this has been reported by the pro war right wing media and has also been discussed on this forum.

Now he is suppressing the news media which has finally gotten up the courage to criticize him after all these years of government brutalism.

Did Chavez threaten to invade his neighboring countries? spread nuclear tech? harbored international terrorists? pardoned warmongers? taken government office via coup?

In each instance, the answer is a resounding no.

So why is it that the biased right wing media attacks Chavez and has its allies such as yourself attacking him and sidestepping more significant issues such as the evils of Musharraf??

 

[Belldandy]

The media are misleading us about Chavez. They have lied before and can't be trusted.

Can you tell me in which way please?

Even in Canada people loose their jobs or get shuffled around when there is a new government.

I can be mistaken here, but I read that in Canada you have people from the opposition party in the government, I have this in my "notes" from Canada:

The second largest party (or the largest party in the instance when the government in office does not win the highest number of seats but is able to form a government with the support of minor parties) becomes the Official Opposition and its leader becomes the person holding the recognized position of Leader of the Opposition. The Leader of the Opposition gets the same salary as a Minister. The leader of any party that has at least 12 seats also gets a higher salary than an ordinary Member of the House of Commons. These parties also get public money for research.
Why? Because we want criticism, we want watchfulness, we want the possibility of an effective alternative government if we are displeased with the one we have.

You don't have that here, not at all.

You're in Canada so obviously you were well off there. I don't think Chavez is all that liked by the wealthy just the majority.

I'm not in Canada yet, I'm taking the medicals and the visa should arrive in October. I don't have money for anything, that is why I'm leaving the country. Thank God my dad and mom are in the middle class and they help us out with the money and we live in their house (I have been married for 2 years and still living with my parents even though I'm a professional with 2 jobs), and with all that I'm still leaving with a debt of aprox. 9.000 USD in my country.
And about Chavez been liked by the majority? You can't be sure of that since he has threaten so many people and they have to vote for him or loose their jobs (I have family in that situation).

I don't see aljazeera being broadcast in the USA or Canada?

You can't compare the opposition TV channels here with aljazeera!! (Even if you ignore that aljazeera is not a US channel) Have you been here and watch a full day of VTV (government channel) and a full day of Globovision (opposition channel)? If you haven't, you can't compare them at all and have an impartial opinion about what they broadcast.

@gopher: I'm not comparing Chavez to Musharraf because I can't BUT:

Did Chavez threaten to invade his neighboring countries? spread nuclear tech? harbored international terrorists? pardoned warmongers? taken government office via coup?

Ehhh, not all of them (At least yet) but he did attempt to take the government via coup http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Venezuelan_coup_d'état_attempts
And he supports the Colombian guerrilla http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/177yckaw.asp?pg=1
And he threatened military intervention in Bolivia http://www.venezuelatoday.net/gustavo-coronel/hugo-chavez+military+bolivia.html among other things.

 

[Toro]

Belldandy,

We will welcome you to Canada. You will be a great citizen and I hope Canada offers you a good life.

 

[Scott Free]

Belldandy,

We will welcome you to Canada. You will be a great citizen and I hope Canada offers you a good life.

Sure... Until it gets tough here and then he'll run off somewhere else. Just what Canada needs. :angry3:

 

[thomaska]

Now come on Gofer. I don't know enough about the situation in Pakastain to know if it is comparable but what I do know is you don't see right wingers on this board jumping over each other to defend this decision. People on the right recognize Pakastan for what it is. That is an important allie. I have not seen one right winger build the Primiminister of Pakastain up anywhere near as much as I have seen the left worship their false hero Chavez. You are clearly showing your partisan bias.

Geez, what a cop out.

Musharraf is a dictator who won his position in a coup by kickig out a democratically elected president. He pardon Dr Khan who spread nuclear technology to Libya and North Korea, threatened India with nukes, and has done nothing to suppress the presence of Sunni extremism in parts of his country. All of this has been reported by the pro war right wing media and has also been discussed on this forum.

Now he is suppressing the news media which has finally gotten up the courage to criticize him after all these years of government brutalism.

Did Chavez threaten to invade his neighboring countries? spread nuclear tech? harbored international terrorists? pardoned warmongers? taken government office via coup?

In each instance, the answer is a resounding no.

So why is it that the biased right wing media attacks Chavez and has its allies such as yourself attacking him and sidestepping more significant issues such as the evils of Musharraf??

Biased right wing media?

Thats funny. Thats like saying that there is such a thing as a sphere with corners. Or a round square.

 

[Belldandy]

Thank you Toro, I'm sure we'll be very happy in Canada

 

[gopher]

``Ehhh, not all of them (At least yet) but he did attempt to take the government via coup http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Ve...A9tat_attempts
And he supports the Colombian guerrilla http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...yckaw.asp?pg=1
And he threatened military intervention in Bolivia http://www.venezuelatoday.net/gustav...y+bolivia.html among other things.``

And was he not democratically elected?

The ultra reich wing Weekly Standard is well known for making things up. You would be better served if you found a credible source.

Don't know about intervention on Bolivia as it also has a democratically elected government and president Evo Morales is probably his best friend.


How many people died in Iraq because of Chavez?

Did he threaten Iran?

Is he re-starting the arms race?

Is he making up stories of WMD that exist only in his mind?

For me as a Yank, I am concerned with what goes on in Washington, DC. If you want reform in Caracas, I respectfully suggest that you utilize the democratic processes that have served your country over the years. Chavez is a better alternative to the evil tachirenses that plagued your country for so long. And it's a good bet that the majority of Venezolanos would agree.

 

[gopher]

Thats funny. Thats like saying that there is such a thing as a sphere with corners. Or a round square.

And pretending that it's ever so liberal is like pretending that Saddam had WMD and that Baghdad still has 45 minute attack capability.