Dog tortured and killed in Oven

[Libra Girl]

Have I stopped to see how these young boys are? Well, being an Artist I try to keep things in perspective by visualization and analysis of peripherals, boundaries etc. I certainly took into consideration the ages of the young men, and then visualized myself at the age of five. Even then I would have known that it would be dreadful to even think of such an action, let alone carry it out! But, lets see what the whole procedure would have involved in time and materials, aside from state of minds of both victim and perpetrators...

Arbitrarily, but hopefully on the liberal side, lets say it took 10 to 15 minutes to tie up the dog with masking tape, maybe more if it was struggling.. another 10 to 15 minutes to put (an almost certainly struggling dog by now) into an oven. 20 to 30 minutes in which neither boy appeared to harbor any doubts about their actions, or indeed care about the consequences both for themselves, or their victim.

Lets see; How long would it take to bake a dog? An hour? Two? Was it a modern oven, did it have a glass door? Did they watch their victim in it's terrified death throes? What about the dog? How prolongued was it's agony?

Personally, I think psychological treatment may have been required at kindergaten stage, and whoever had charge of them during the following years cannot have missed this, but whatever the circumstances, this was beyond that stage when the dog died; This was pure evil personified!

Do I stop to consider how the boys are? I am totally disinterested in their welfare at the moment! I can't get past a dog, looking through an oven door, with a trusting and pleading look on it's face!

 

[allen_p]

Being a bit of the devil's advocate this morning, but must ask. Have any of you stopped to consider how young these boys are? In other words, that perhaps psychological treatment might be the best solution. Do you think they were fully aware of the consequences of their actions?

I feel the same way for "Jack-the ripper" - He and few others (I can do a google for that - but i really dont care) too needed "psycho" treatment. Why to leave terrorists behind - They too need humane treatment. We are humans after all.
But best part - even rapists should be let free since They spared the "VICTIM" - right ?

 

[hermanntrude]

maybe they do need psychological treatment. But at this stage, when they've done something so barbaric, they should be punished as well. otherwise how will they know it was wrong? i mean obviously you or I know it's wrong because we have morals (to varying degrees). These guys are somehow lacking that

 

[Kreskin]

These kids will get out. Now we need to stop them from becoming the next Jeffrey Dahmer's.

 

[whicker]

:angry6: I agree totally with the f*** lawyer -- the three of them should have the same treatment and then see if the slime lawyer says the same thing!!! Unfortunately human beings being so 'special' as to not recieve the same as they give the next best thing would be to lobotomize the three of them and put them in a cotton field.
Aside. Can you imagine what these two will be like after spending a couple of years in jail -- you know, out in 1 for good behaviour. They have absolutely no regard for life and with the training they get in jail, well, I like the idea of lobotomization - at least that way they would be rendered somewhat harmless. The lawyer must be some 'special' person too:angry6:

 

[hermanntrude]

:angry6: I agree totally with the f*** lawyer -- the three of them should have the same treatment and then see if the slime lawyer says the same thing!!! Unfortunately human beings being so 'special' as to not recieve the same as they give the next best thing would be to lobotomize the three of them and put them in a cotton field.
Aside. Can you imagine what these two will be like after spending a couple of years in jail -- you know, out in 1 for good behaviour. They have absolutely no regard for life and with the training they get in jail, well, I like the idea of lobotomization - at least that way they would be rendered somewhat harmless. The lawyer must be some 'special' person too:angry6:

don't you think lobotomisation would be (almost) as cruel as what they did to the dog?

 

[whicker]

Being a bit of the devil's advocate this morning, but must ask. Have any of you stopped to consider how young these boys are? In other words, that perhaps psychological treatment might be the best solution. Do you think they were fully aware of the consequences of their actions?

Sorry, this is not being the devil's advocate, this is the simple minded attitude of the bloody civil rights and do-gooders. You can bet your bottom dollar these things knew exactly what they were doing. Psychological treatment hell, brain surgery is more like it.
Something along the same lines as the boys who skinned the cat alive, calling it art and it being endorsed by their dumb ****eass teacher.

 

[whicker]

don't you think lobotomisation would be (almost) as cruel as what they did to the dog?

No, because it would be done under anesthetic -- unfortunately

 

[hermanntrude]

yes but when they wake up they find themselves brain damaged for the rest of their lives. that's hardly humane is it?

 

[whicker]

yes but when they wake up they find themselves brain damaged for the rest of their lives. that's hardly humane is it?

Don't you think they are now??? Besides, they wouldn't know the difference. How human do you think these two are anyway??

 

[hermanntrude]

I agree with you that this is an awful thing to do. I also note that people are more upset about this than they appeared over the child torture thread.

I really do think they should have very severe punishment, they must know they did wrong. But when doling out punishments it's not what we'd like to do to them that counts, it's what might stop it happening again, and what sends the right message. Clamping them down and performing unsolicited surgery on them is against their human rights, and sends a very dark message to the world. "if you screw up we can do what we want, and by the way it's US who decides if u screwed up". prison may not seem that bad a punishment but it's what murderers get.

They obviously also need some kind of therapy. at the very least so scientists can try and work out what brings people to do this kind of thing

 

[whicker]

I get really upset when I hear of animal abuse. The only animal on the face of this planet that will abuse another animal(and human) is a human. Humans for the most part are able to get away with it because they totally believe that they are the higher of the species and that the lower species do not have any feelings what-so-ever and are not worth consideration - unless they are making the human money and then their worth is only till the animal stops making the human rich.
In this human species there are those that abuse animals for the simple enjoyment of it, the thrill they get from feeling superior and the fact that they can get away with it and the excuses they use are pathetic to say the least.
These cretins, and others like them have no regard for life. Why should they be spared because they are of the human species which knows better but acts so anyway?

 

[hermanntrude]

I get really upset when I hear of animal abuse. The only animal on the face of this planet that will abuse another animal(and human) is a human.

NOT true, although they do seem to have a penchant for it. Have you ever seen killer whales play with a baby seal? they bat it around with their tails until they get bored or it dies. sometimes they dont even bother to eat it. Cat's torture mice too. cruelty isnt unique to man.

Humans for the most part are able to get away with it because they totally believe that they are the higher of the species and that the lower species do not have any feelings what-so-ever and are not worth consideration - unless they are making the human money and then their worth is only till the animal stops making the human rich.
In this human species there are those that abuse animals for the simple enjoyment of it, the thrill they get from feeling superior and the fact that they can get away with it and the excuses they use are pathetic to say the least.
These cretins, and others like them have no regard for life. Why should they be spared because they are of the human species which knows better but acts so anyway?

for the same reason murderers arent killed (usually) and rapists arent raped. Emotional sentencing is not the way to go about it. I know it really is very upsetting that someone could do this. I honestly feel as bad about it as you do, I value the life and feelings of a dog too. I certainly don't believe the human race is "higher" than any other beast.

I just dont think we should be dealing out sentences based on feelings

 

[whicker]

I agree with you that this is an awful thing to do. I also note that people are more upset about this than they appeared over the child torture thread.

I really do think they should have very severe punishment, they must know they did wrong. But when doling out punishments it's not what we'd like to do to them that counts, it's what might stop it happening again, and what sends the right message. Clamping them down and performing unsolicited surgery on them is against their human rights, and sends a very dark message to the world. "if you screw up we can do what we want, and by the way it's US who decides if u screwed up". prison may not seem that bad a punishment but it's what murderers get.

They obviously also need some kind of therapy. at the very least so scientists can try and work out what brings people to do this kind of thing

I am sorry but this is the platitude that is handed out for every wrong doing by man. Therapy, therapy, therapy - any other type of punishment is against their human rights. People don't really mean to do bad things, it is every excuse under the sun for them except that maybe these people just want to commit crimes. It is from a very young age that humans know the difference between right and wrong, maybe not the level, but they know for certain sure when they are doing something wrong.
Against their human rights. What about the rights of the victims?

 

[hermanntrude]

MOST humans learn right and wrong at an early age. some never learn at all.

I'm not suggesting we should put them in a comfy couch and ask them what their mother called them when they were 2, and which breast they were preferably fed from, i'm suggesting we a) try to work out what made them do something like that. you yourself suggested it must be something wrong with them b) see if there's anything can be done to fix it c) see if there's any way we can prevent it happening in other people. it's common damage limitation strategy.

And i DID say we should punish them. Damn right. bang 'em up.

 

[whicker]

for the same reason murderers arent killed (usually) and rapists arent raped. Emotional sentencing is not the way to go about it. I know it really is very upsetting that someone could do this. I honestly feel as bad about it as you do, I value the life and feelings of a dog too. I certainly don't believe the human race is "higher" than any other beast.

I just dont think we should be dealing out sentences based on feelings

This is the way sentencing is handled now - by emotion. The emotion is that a human is too valued to be punished according to the crime. I believe in the death sentence. Yes, I know that mistakes can be made and this is a sink sand punishment but, if the person is guilty beyond doubt of murder then that person should be eliminated from the human race if for no other reason then it won't be set free to murder someone else again. Rapists should be, again, lobotomized. A rapist rapes for the superior, in charge thrill it gives him and knowing that it can be done again and again with relatively minor consequences is his reward. Take that away and this criminal becomes harmless.
Compared to what I would hand out as punishment a lobotomy is the most humane treatment I would hand out.
Compared to what they are now, they might become useful citizens.

 

[hermanntrude]

have u ever broken a law?

I have. And i think the punishment, had i been caught, would be PLENTY, thanks.

It's all too easy to shout "condemn the criminal! lobotomy!" but you have to empathise with the punished and realise a spell in prison is a BIG punishment.

relatively minor consequences for rape? what country do you live in???

 

[whicker]

MOST humans learn right and wrong at an early age. some never learn at all.

I'm not suggesting we should put them in a comfy couch and ask them what their mother called them when they were 2, and which breast they were preferably fed from, i'm suggesting we a) try to work out what made them do something like that. you yourself suggested it must be something wrong with them b) see if there's anything can be done to fix it c) see if there's any way we can prevent it happening in other people. it's common damage limitation strategy.

And i DID say we should punish them. Damn right. bang 'em up.

Yes, there is something wrong with them and no amount of 'damage limitation strategy' for them or others like them is going to help. The way I see it is that, if you are a responsible animal person/breeder and you produce offspring that go against the given characteristics of the breed then you don't continue breeding them or when you have a sick (in mind or body) animal, or an animal that goes against the rules as laid out by humans you get rid of it, hopefully in a humane way.

Sorry, human beings are a sore topic for me and I can get rather severe in the way that I would deal with actions and consequences.

 

[hermanntrude]

Yes, there is something wrong with them and no amount of 'damage limitation strategy' for them or others like them is going to help.

I disagree. I think it can be helped. and even if in some cases it can't we should at least try

The way I see it is that, if you are a responsible animal person/breeder and you produce offspring that go against the given characteristics of the breed then you don't continue breeding them or when you have a sick (in mind or body) animal, or an animal that goes against the rules as laid out by humans you get rid of it, hopefully in a humane way.

Again, i disagree. I think the death penalty (discussed in another thread), or any penalty which violates people's bodies is wrong. especially for crimes less than multiple rape and murder. and yes killing a dog, even in this horrible manner, is less of a crime than multiple rape and murder.

Sorry, human beings are a sore topic for me and I can get rather severe in the way that I would deal with actions and consequences.

you needn't apologise. But it seems to me you're using your emotions and i am using logic.

 

[dude1981]

Yes, there is something wrong with them and no amount of 'damage limitation strategy' for them or others like them is going to help. The way I see it is that, if you are a responsible animal person/breeder and you produce offspring that go against the given characteristics of the breed then you don't continue breeding them or when you have a sick (in mind or body) animal, or an animal that goes against the rules as laid out by humans you get rid of it, hopefully in a humane way.

Sorry, human beings are a sore topic for me and I can get rather severe in the way that I would deal with actions and consequences.

Hey, what they did totally sucked. no question. But they're still kids.They can be redeemed. funny older people get more upright about animals getting hurt than people.