Couple jailed for child torture

[CDNBear]

well thats my point, but you adults dont want to get. you guys are exactly the same from where i sit. you might not believe the same crap, but you behave exactly the same. youll deny it, but other than one is sanctus and one is bear, you and him are pretty much the same to anyone who disagrees with you. course youll call me some more names for saying that.

No I won't...

I'll agree, we're very simular, but I must point out that I avoid the religious spam sanctus posts, until it attacks my religious beliefs.

He is as free to post whatever, whenever, as anyone else, as I do, I take great amounts of heat for what I post, so what, that's what it's all about. But I try not to generalize, nor would I be as presumpuous as to condemn others, with the scorn and venomous tripe, that has flowed from the likes of mary and m_leveque and to some extent yourself. I fight fire with fire. If you can't stand the heat, stop dancing with the devil.

 

[westmanguy]

22 years all together? Yuck... Typically Canadian Justice. Should have been 25 years each.

 

[snfu73]

22 years all together? Yuck... Typically Canadian Justice. Should have been 25 years each.

Typical Canadian Justice??????

I believe this happened in the UK.

And, I would love to see a source link as well...I don't think it is very unreasonable to ask for a source. Anyone can bring in an article and change to their liking. A source link shows that the article has not been altered in anyway.

 

[westmanguy]

I never brought up an article.
Its just to me Canada is typically, lenient with sentencing with our criminals. The system caters to the criminals, not the victims, when it should be objective.

 

[snfu73]

I don't know...I mean, you aren't the first person to express that. I am pleased with our justice system. I think too many people aren't looking for justice, they are looking for heads to roll...revenge...not justice...and I think our system offers justice...not revenge. I think it serves society well. I think if it were up to most victims, sure, they would love to see the perpetrator of a crime thrown in jail and have the key tossed away...and that's why they don't have the power to decide. I don't think the system is lenient. I think the system needs some work...I think more money and more resources for councilling, psychiatric services, and transition programs is important. I think that humans make mistakes. I think that some people will learn from those mistakes. Others will not, and will end up spending much of their lives institutionalized. I think the whole system is very complicated, and there are no black and white answers on how to completely prevent crime or reoffending. But, overall, I think that the system we have in place is an all around decent system.

 

[snfu73]

I never brought up an article.
Its just to me Canada is typically, lenient with sentencing with our criminals. The system caters to the criminals, not the victims, when it should be objective.

No, I know you didn't bring up an article...the last statement was for the original poster, and in defence of the person who asked for a source link but was slammed.

 

[westmanguy]

I am talking about the punishment fitting the crime.

There was a couple that drugged, raped, kidnapped, and threatned girls in a Winnipeg neighbourhood.

These 2 were sentenced to 2 years prison. But since they were in custody for 1 year leading to trial, they got 1 year in prison each.

Does that fit the crime? Does it?

You don't call that lenient?

Many Canadians are unpleased with the current state of the system.

 

[snfu73]

I am talking about the punishment fitting the crime.

There was a couple that drugged, raped, kidnapped, and threatned girls in a Winnipeg neighbourhood.

These 2 were sentenced to 2 years prison. But since they were in custody for 1 year leading to trial, they got 1 year in prison each.

Does that fit the crime? Does it?

You don't call that lenient?

Many Canadians are unpleased with the current state of the system.

I'm not saying that there are Canadians that are unpleased with the system. There are. I know they are.

I don't know the specifics of that case. I can't really comment. What WOULD the appropriate sentence be? What were the reasons behind the sentence that was given? You have just given me a very brief summary. Trials have hours and hours of testimony. There may be a very good reason that the sentence given was given. I don't know.

 

[selfactivated]

If I may interject here gentlemen, as a survivor of abuse in my humble opinion I see child abuse likened to murder and should be punishable as such. When you abuse a child like that you kill their spirit and murder their childhood. Just my opinion.

 

[snfu73]

If I may interject here gentlemen, as a survivor of abuse in my humble opinion I see child abuse likened to murder and should be punishable as such. When you abuse a child like that you kill their spirit and murder their childhood. Just my opinion.

Oh, please don't get me wrong...I am not defending the actions of the people involved. I'm not saying what has happened is in any way okay.

 

[selfactivated]

I understand, its just a conversation and Im agree that the laws are lacks. I may be overstating my position but I know what those children will go through in the future, its not easy. To me abusers are murders. Maybe when laws come up to be rectified the ones who make them will see that.

 

[snfu73]

But what was the root of the abuse? Often abuse is a reaction to past abuse. Again, not justifying, but, more stating the truth. Is the person doing the abusing ALSO a victim? Should that be taken in to account. And, could the abuse issues be improved through counselling and help, instead of through just tossing someone in jail...is jail really the best solution?

 

[selfactivated]

But what was the root of the abuse? Often abuse is a reaction to past abuse. Again, not justifying, but, more stating the truth. Is the person doing the abusing ALSO a victim? Should that be taken in to account. And, could the abuse issues be improved through counselling and help, instead of through just tossing someone in jail...is jail really the best solution?

I do see your point My step was a veitnam vet that came home from the war an achohlic and a pedaphile. Would he get help? Nope. Was my abuse even aqknowledged? Nope. But let me tell you if someone would have believed a 10 year old I would have jumped for joy if they would have just made him stop. I just wanted a real family.

A child doesnt want retrabution, a grown up does. Im grown up.

 

[marygaspe]

I understand, its just a conversation and Im agree that the laws are lacks. I may be overstating my position but I know what those children will go through in the future, its not easy. To me abusers are murders. Maybe when laws come up to be rectified the ones who make them will see that.

Abusers are murderes, of the soul. My cousin was sexually and mentally abused by her father. None of us knew when we were growing up, and frankly this was back in the days when such things would not have been discussed outside of the family(I am a bit older then some of you--heh heh heh)

The point is, when my cousin got older and moved out of the house, and started sharing with some of us what my uncle had done to her, it horrifed me.

But for my cousin, she never was able to become a full person. She was afraid of everything and was unable to form a healthy bond with a man.

Maybe if she had been younger and in this time it would've been different. Things are out in the open now and there are lots of support groups.

Sorry to ramble, but the important thing is how her soul and spirit was murdered.

 

[snfu73]

I don't blame you at all, and I'm really sorry to hear. Ahhh, good ol' war...what a way to mess up a person. And, then, it has trickle down effects...and, sadly, you got the brunt of it by the sounds of things. It is unfortunate that he didn't seek help. It is unfortunate that he wasn't, in some ways, forced to get help. I think the US army tends to let down vets...it doesn't give enough support on how to deal with life after war. That's a side of war that most countries don't want to acknowledge. And, you are right...you wanted a family...you wanted love...you wanted to not be abused. Unfortunatly, that isn't what happened. I'm sorry. I'd say you were let down all around. You were abused, and noone helped.

 

[snfu73]

Abusers are murderes, of the soul. My cousin was sexually and mentally abused by her father. None of us knew when we were growing up, and frankly this was back in the days when such things would not have been discussed outside of the family(I am a bit older then some of you--heh heh heh)

The point is, when my cousin got older and moved out of the house, and started sharing with some of us what my uncle had done to her, it horrifed me.

But for my cousin, she never was able to become a full person. She was afraid of everything and was unable to form a healthy bond with a man.

Maybe if she had been younger and in this time it would've been different. Things are out in the open now and there are lots of support groups.

Sorry to ramble, but the important thing is how her soul and spirit was murdered.

I don't agree that her soul and spirit were murdered. They were pushed deep down...but it's still there. There is help out there...I've needed plenty of it. It will take alot of time and alot of work, but she can find herself again....she is in there...it can be done....she can do it...if she is willing to do it.

 

[selfactivated]

I don't blame you at all, and I'm really sorry to hear. Ahhh, good ol' war...what a way to mess up a person. And, then, it has trickle down effects...and, sadly, you got the brunt of it by the sounds of things. It is unfortunate that he didn't seek help. It is unfortunate that he wasn't, in some ways, forced to get help. I think the US army tends to let down vets...it doesn't give enough support on how to deal with life after war. That's a side of war that most countries don't want to acknowledge. And, you are right...you wanted a family...you wanted love...you wanted to not be abused. Unfortunatly, that isn't what happened. I'm sorry. I'd say you were let down all around. You were abused, and noone helped.

This is where my belief comes in. I take that pain and I share my experience. Im not shy about sharing my past. I try to help others in the same situation. Like Marys cousin Im a bit of a recluse but In my 112 years on the net Im quit proud that Ive helped others that felt alone in their abuse.

I still think tougher laws are needed but yes counciling and healing is utmost for any victom AND Perp.

 

[westmanguy]

Sexual, physical, and mental abuse is like murder.

When a person breaks a person down, its like murder.

I have seen this more than once in my life. One time in a workplace, where a woman was mistreated by the admin. and was taking action, and when she came back to work the boss and his cronies tore her down, and hurt her so much. I was a friend of this woman, and I can say her spirit was destroyed.

Abusers are murders of the spirit. The abuser's past may have been bad, but they are still the ones consiously hurting their victim.

Abuse, is not heightened to the level of murder, when it should be. It can ruin a person's life. Its really sad to see..

 

[marygaspe]

Sexual, physical, and mental abuse is like murder.

When a person breaks a person down, its like murder.
ee..

I think the worst kind of abuse is mental. Anything physical you can overcome as the body heals, but mental abuse is cruel and stays with one for a long time.

This is where my belief comes in. I take that pain and I share my experience. Im not shy about sharing my past. I try to help others in the same situation. Like Marys cousin Im a bit of a recluse but In my 112 years on the net Im quit proud that Ive helped others that felt alone in their abuse.

I still think tougher laws are needed but yes counciling and healing is utmost for any victom AND Perp.

My cousin spent the rest of her life pretty well locked up in her house. About all she did was go out shopping. She died about two years ago from cancer. I aloways felt so sad that she was such a recluse. she had two failed marriages, each lasting a few years until it ended.

 

[Libra Girl]

I think that humans make mistakes. I think that some people will learn from those mistakes. Others will not, and will end up spending much of their lives institutionalized. I think the whole system is very complicated, and there are no black and white answers on how to completely prevent crime or reoffending. But, overall, I think that the system we have in place is an all around decent system.

snfu, much as I admire your sentiments generally, there are some things, such as this that are simply not accidental... this was a systematic abuse; physical agression by two adults, not one, but two, on a helpless, defenceless child. A one time mistake can be taken for what it is, simply that. These two people should have known that what they were doing was wrong! When the perpetrators are parolled in 3 to 4 years, as no doubt they will be, the little girl will still be in the early stages of what will be a lifetime of therapy, and she still may never emotionally recover from her trauma. How does that make for a decent system?