Why are you against Gay marriage?

[hermanntrude]

i think missing is the wrong word. The child may grow up differently, but anything missing is just as likely to be missing if the mother is a little stupid, or an alcoholic, or doesnt care much about other people, or is obsessed with michael jackson so much she hasnt time for anything else.... etc

 

[karrie]

I am agreed too...

that was a quick turn around in your view.

 

[karrie]

i think missing is the wrong word. The child may grow up differently, but anything missing is just as likely to be missing if the mother is a little stupid, or an alcoholic, or doesnt care much about other people, or is obsessed with michael jackson so much she hasnt time for anything else.... etc

exactly. there are no guarantees in life, and to deny an adoptive child a chance at a loving home, just because he may be impacted differently than other kids, makes no sense.

 

[vinod1975]

that was a quick turn around in your view.

I think i have explained , I am talking my same old stand

 

[tamarin]

We don't know enough about the effects of a same sex household on kids and won't for a generation. If things go wrong, the kids can sue the state and taxpayers, as usual, can pick up the tab. Bonding and imprinting are powerful forces in the natural world. To think that kids won't be somehow different is quite likely wishful thinking.

 

[hermanntrude]

We don't know enough about the effects of a same sex household on kids and won't for a generation. If things go wrong, the kids can sue the state and taxpayers, as usual, can pick up the tab. Bonding and imprinting are powerful forces in the natural world. To think that kids won't be somehow different is quite likely wishful thinking.

children have never been brought up by gay couples before? give me a break. and what do u expect to go wrong? I guarantee nothing can go wrong that doesnt also go wrong with hetero couples

 

[vinod1975]

do we have any prove for the same...

 

[karrie]

do we have any prove for the same...

I don't know of any impartial statistics being available on the issue. But I do know gay families with children, people whose parents came out as gay when they were young children, fathers who have raised their children without mothers, mothers who have raised their children without fathers, gay people who have been brought up in conservative christian households, and straight people who have been brought up in typical households.

All the children from all of these scenarios turn out relatively equal in the end. That's only anecdotal evidence, but it's plenty for me to form a personal opinion from.

 

[hermanntrude]

we know that children have been brought up in all sorts of envornments for the whole history of mankind. We also know that despite the nastiest upbringings, many of us acheive greatness and happiness beyond the wildest dreams of many of those brought up on silk cushions in suburbia with a nice fence around their house and a feminine mother and a masculine father.

It seems obvious to me that although upbringing is vitally important, the defining of a good upbringing is not dependant on the sex or sexuality of the parents.

 

[vinod1975]

I don't know of any impartial statistics being available on the issue. But I do know gay families with children, people whose parents came out as gay when they were young children, fathers who have raised their children without mothers, mothers who have raised their children without fathers, gay people who have been brought up in conservative christian households, and straight people who have been brought up in typical households.

All the children from all of these scenarios turn out relatively equal in the end. That's only anecdotal evidence, but it's plenty for me to form a personal opinion from.

good to know that

 

[tamarin]

Herman, we don't have the stats yet. You know this has never been widespread practice. Until there is a large enough study group for assessment we're working in the dark. Experimenting. We'll see if lab results meet expectations in twenty years or so.

 

[hermanntrude]

Herman, we don't have the stats yet. You know this has never been widespread practice. Until there is a large enough study group for assessment we're working in the dark. Experimenting. We'll see if lab results meet expectations in twenty years or so.

lab results??? this isnt a subject science can examine easily, and a lab surely won't help us. The fact is we all have seen with our own eyes what same sex couples can be like, and, although uncommon, children have regularly been brought up in gay households. We dont see statistics because you can't easily quantify happiness and u sure as hell can't pin it down to whether the parents are gay. there are too many other factors.

while it's a subject which is hard to examine by scientific methods, common sense is quite a powerful tool here. When we're children our parents' sexuality isnt an issue, it's who our parents are, how they behave and what they teach us that matters.

 

[vinod1975]

Experimenting. We'll see if lab results meet expectations in twenty years or so. ?????????????

 

[karrie]

Herman, we don't have the stats yet. You know this has never been widespread practice. Until there is a large enough study group for assessment we're working in the dark. Experimenting. We'll see if lab results meet expectations in twenty years or so.

In your hypothetical lab, what are the criteria with which you would judge this "experiment" a success or a failure? How would you measure your upbringing against the worthiness of someone else's exactly?

 

[tamarin]

Yikes, I've lost my last post! This is one forum that often has dead cyber air. It just suddenly shuts down.
Let if suffice to say fewer than 10% of Canadians have likely seen a same sex parenting relationship. I'm 55, have been all over the place and I've never seen one. It's a trend in its infancy. Imprinting is a hugely significant force and it will take patient research to assess what is or is not happening in same sex households. Give it twenty years.
Karrie, I don't have the patience to be a lab researcher. I won't set their parameters or goals. But to assume such a major jump into the unknown won't have consequences is naive.

 

[hermanntrude]

Yikes, I've lost my last post! This is one forum that often has dead cyber air. It just suddenly shuts down.
Let if suffice to say fewer than 10% of Canadians have likely seen a same sex parenting relationship. I'm 55, have been all over the place and I've never seen one. It's a trend in its infancy. Imprinting is a hugely significant force and it will take patient research to assess what is or is not happening in same sex households. Give it twenty years.
Karrie, I don't have the patience to be a lab researcher. I won't set their parameters or goals. But to assume such a major jump into the unknown won't have consequences is naive.

10% of 50,000,000... hmm that's about 5,000,000. not a big enough group of people? if 5,000,000 people have seen it in THIS country, it's not a big new thing. I'd say even back in the middle ages before u guys wasted all the natived and moved in, that stuff was going on, unofficially, and it hasnt become a taboo and there arent people wandering the streets complaining their life was ruined cos their parents were gay.

 

[tamarin]

Herman, you're on the sauce. Canada has 32 million people. You're grabbing at numbers. We need time to assess what the consequences are. Makes sense to me. Eminently.

 

[hermanntrude]

apologies. someone told me it was 50,000,000 and i believed them without checking up. numbers of this size don't mean much anyway, it's still 3.2million people who know a couple who brought up a kid as a homosexual couple. and it's still been going on for hundreds, thousands of years.

it's nothing new.

we dont "need more time"

the "consquences" are down to the people, not their sexuality.

 

[tamarin]

Herman, as I said, I've never seen such a relationship. Read about it- yes! But society has a responsibility to go forward slowly on such 'reforms.' Kids are too important to our future not to have the best that we can muster as a nation. I didn't say such parenting situations wouldn't work. I've just said there are damn few of us with firsthand information on it.

 

[karrie]

Herman, you're on the sauce. Canada has 32 million people. You're grabbing at numbers. We need time to assess what the consequences are. Makes sense to me. Eminently.

Do you really think that adoption agencies haven't explored the issue already? They gather information on every other area of a couple's lives which might impact a child negatively. It's not like adoption counsellors just run around willy nilly, handing out babies to every oppressed individual they come across.