Am I demonstrating the love of God to you? Obviously, so, otherwise you would not have said so!
Even you can discern the love of God when it is presented to you.
My friend, you are being loved! Not me, but God by me.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
How can we get rid of our sinfulness?
- Thread starter sanctus
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Am I demonstrating the love of God to you? Obviously, so, otherwise you would not have said so!
Even you can discern the love of God when it is presented to you.
My friend, you are being loved! Not me, but God by me.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
I am worthy of no praise, but He who touches hearts...............is!
All glory and praise is His to receive from His own creation.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Nothing I like better than armchair theologians
Almost as much as I like people outside the Church telling me what we believe Anyway, before you so literally interpret such a doctrine, let me explan it for you since it seems to be a core belief for you.The Church's own understanding of the significance of the phrase is expressed in its Catechism of the Catholic Church, 846-848 as follows:
"Outside the Church there is no salvation" - How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: "Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it" (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 14). This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation" (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 16). "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men" (Second Vatican Council, Ad Gentes, 1). It is therefore in this sense that the Catholic Church interprets the following statements by Councils and Popes:
Fourth Lateran Council (1215): "There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved."
Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam Sanctam (1302): "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
Pope Eugene IV, Bull Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."
Pope Pelagius II (578-590): "Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord. ...Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness. ...Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned. ...[If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church" (Denzinger 246-247)
Saint Gregory the Great (590-604), Moralia: "Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved."
Pope Innocent III (1198-1216): "With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved" (Denzinger 423).
Pope Leo XII (1823-1829), Encyclical Ubi Primum: "We profess that there is no salvation outside the Church. ... For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: `If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.'"
Pope Gregory XVI (1831-1846), Encyclical, Summo Jugiter: "It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved."
Pope Pius IX (1846-1878), "It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood" (Denzinger 1647).
Pope Leo XIII (1878-1903), Encyclical Annum Ingressi Sumus: "This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church."
idem, Encyclical Sapientiae Christianae:"He scatters and gathers not who gathers not with the Church and with Jesus Christ, and all who fight not jointly with Him and with the Church are in very truth contending against God."
Pope Pius X (1903-1914), Encyclical Jucunda Sane: "It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation."
Pope Benedict XV (1914-1922), Encyclical Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum: "Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved."
Pope Pius XI (1922-1939), Encyclical Mortalium Animos: "The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. ... Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors."
Pope Pius XII (1939-1958), Allocution to the Gregorian University (17 October 1953): "By divine mandate the interpreter and guardian of the Scriptures, and the depository of Sacred Tradition living within her, the Church alone is the entrance to salvation: She alone, by herself, and under the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, is the source of truth."
Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, 14: "They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it."
Others have interpreted the phrase "extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" to mean that only explicit adherents of the Roman Catholic Church can be saved.
This interpretation is associated in particular with the Rev. Leonard Feeney, M.I.C.M. (1897-1978). Feeney had originally been a Roman Catholic priest and a member of the Jesuit order. On account of disobedience, the Jesuit order dismissed Feeney in 1949, and on 4 February 1953 the Holy Office (now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) declared him excommunicated "on account of grave disobedience to Church Authority, being unmoved by repeated warnings". This declaration was approved by Pope Pius XII on 12 February 1953 and published on the following day. His followers formed the group known as the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
It was traditionally believed that, as well as through sacramental baptism ("baptism of water"), salvation is granted through "baptism of blood" (martyrdom for the faith) and "baptism of desire" (dying, perhaps as a catechumen, before being able to fulfil the wish to be baptized). Some tended to broaden the notion of "baptism of desire" to cover the situation of all who try to live good lives, while perhaps desiring no relationship with the Catholic Church. Taken to its extreme, this broadened interpretation is practically the equivalent of the notion of universal salvation. Father Feeney, on the other hand, accepted no form of baptism other than by water and only within the Catholic Church as opening the way to salvation.
The followers of Father Feeney interpret as supporting their view the 1302 bull Unam Sanctam of Pope Boniface VIII ("We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff"), and the strong restatement of the "extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" doctrine by Pope Eugene IV in the bull Cantate Domino of 1441.]
As indicated above, the Catholic Church rejects both Father Feeney's teaching and (by stating that "they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it") the contrary notion that one can be saved while knowingly and deliberately rejecting the Catholic Church.
It holds that, among those who "do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter ... those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 838), and that "(t)hose who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 839).
The Second Vatican Council further explained the status of non-Catholic Christians ("separated brethren") as follows (Unitatis Redintegratio, ):
But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.
Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.
The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.
It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.
The 2000 declaration Dominus Iesus of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith states that "it must be firmly believed that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door." Dominus Iesus then adds that "for those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit; it has a relationship with the Church, which “according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit."Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.
The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.
It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.
Vin, I know your hearts stand, and that stand is Jesus your foundation. Build upon it love and compassion and all that Jesus was, is and will forever be.
Lov ya Brother>>>AJ:love9:
No, I don't believe there's any such thing. I meant you feel you are. You're demonstrating something alright, and it's mostly very positive, a reflection of what I assume is a very gentle and loving personality (yours I mean, not god's), but that's all it is. You credit god for it; I think the credit is yours.
If Christ can be reached directly through the Catholic Church, then by all means let it be so.
God can not be boxed by the limits of our imaginations.
He works outside that box as well as the inside.
The question is: can we see it?
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
God can not be boxed by the limits of our imaginations.
He works outside that box as well as the inside.
The question is: can we see it?
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
what is the meaning of this......
Have Mercy on me a sinner [Luke 18:10-14]
The Sacrament of Reconciliation produces the fruit of peace in our souls and prepares us to be worthy to receive the Precious Body and Blood of Jesus in the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
Have Mercy on me a sinner [Luke 18:10-14]
The Sacrament of Reconciliation produces the fruit of peace in our souls and prepares us to be worthy to receive the Precious Body and Blood of Jesus in the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
I am a mirror that's all. simply a vessel by which God "CAN" do work, that is if I am in tune with Him.
Otherwise, I am nothing but as like a worm.
I deserve no praise at all, for it is not me who speaks through me, but Him who speaks and acts in me to reach out to those who He wants to touch.
I have no pride when it comes to the things of God. If I did, then I would be useless to Him.
God touches people through people.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Recognition for a need for God! And God willing to love you has mercy on you when you seek Him.
That's truly beautiful. Ain't that so much like a loving parents attitude?
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
It doesn't matter. Most people on the planet used to think tomatoes were poisonous, the Sol went around the Earth, and Earth was flat. Large numbers of an opinion don't make the opinion right.
And your god enables you to do everything just perfectly? Must be nice to be able to do everything perfectly. Self-righteousness leads to arrogance and pride, too.
The just man sins seven times a day, so we must indeed sin many more times than him, we have to accept that we are sinners and we must shed tears of repentance for our sins.
There isn't anything past the imagination. One can conceive of anything, hence this all-powerful, omniscient god of yours.
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Have I not demonstrated love towards you regardless of what you believe? If you can answer in the affirmative, then you will recant what you said.
If not, then I have failed to touch you with my heart.
I can only try, the rest is up to God.
Peace>>>AJ:love9:
Yeah, I get rushes from things people say sometimes, too. Used to get a rush from looking at blood when I was a child. First time I saw a crispy, I got a helluva rush, then my lunch rushed right outta me. I can get a rush looking at some fantastic scenery. Some of those things fills me with happiness, too. Splitting wood gives me peace. Watching a campfire gives me peace. It doesn't take some phony spook to give it to me.